Sgt_Boodles Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I know that I have hardly been around in the 501st world, but there are some things I would like to say regarding Anovos' kit (I am open to admitting by bias- I have their kit ordered): There is a lot of talk about how accurate or not this kit is compared to other kits as well as the armor seen on screen.... We are all aware that Anovos' kit is based off of costumes from the Lucasfilm Archives, right? How many of the kits out there can appropriately make the claim that they come directly from scans of the original screen-used costumes? I know there are some kits out there that have come directly from a cast of stunt armor, or other fan builds that are extremely accurate etc. and that's a huge discussion I am honestly not that knowledgeable about myself, but it seems odd to me that so many people are already complaining about a kit that comes straight from the Archives. Like I stated initially, I haven't been around very long, and yes, I am biased towards Anovos because I gave them my money, and I know that there are plenty of extremely accurate kits that have been around from years which people are very happy with. But it seems really bizarre to me that so many in this community who have never been to the Archives themselves are complaining about a company owned by former Legion members producing armor taken directly from screen-used props that has not even shipped yet. This is the same procedure DICE used to create the in-game models for the new Battlefront video game, and everyone thought that was great. Sure, the current situation with the belt seems a little strange, but saying that an armor piece is "too sharp" and dismissing the whole kit's quality sounds like utter nonsense to me. Praising the current CRL and comparing it to everything also seems useless, as it can be changed, if need be, to suit any new developments or insights; in no way are the guidelines set in stone without the possibility of ever being changed. Correct me if I'm wrong/uninformed, but that's just my two-cents regarding the issue right now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I know that I have hardly been around in the 501st world, but there are some things I would like to say regarding Anovos' kit (I am open to admitting by bias- I have their kit ordered): There is a lot of talk about how accurate or not this kit is compared to other kits as well as the armor seen on screen.... We are all aware that Anovos' kit is based off of costumes from the Lucasfilm Archives, right? How many of the kits out there can appropriately make the claim that they come directly from scans of the original screen-used costumes? I know there are some kits out there that have come directly from a cast of stunt armor, or other fan builds that are extremely accurate etc. and that's a huge discussion I am honestly not that knowledgeable about myself, but it seems odd to me that so many people are already complaining about a kit that comes straight from the Archives. Like I stated initially, I haven't been around very long, and yes, I am biased towards Anovos because I gave them my money, and I know that there are plenty of extremely accurate kits that have been around from years which people are very happy with. But it seems really bizarre to me that so many in this community who have never been to the Archives themselves are complaining about a company owned by former Legion members producing armor taken directly from screen-used props that has not even shipped yet. This is the same procedure DICE used to create the in-game models for the new Battlefront video game, and everyone thought that was great. Sure, the current situation with the belt seems a little strange, but saying that an armor piece is "too sharp" and dismissing the whole kit's quality sounds like utter nonsense to me. Praising the current CRL and comparing it to everything also seems useless, as it can be changed, if need be, to suit any new developments or insights; in no way are the guidelines set in stone without the possibility of ever being changed. Correct me if I'm wrong/uninformed, but that's just my two-cents regarding the issue right now. Nick You make some really fine points here, let me help address them so you can better understand the motive of the FISD. In the costuming world the 501st legion has very high standards, for the purpose of accuracy. In the many detachments that cover all costumes in STAR WARS we go to great lengths to maintain a level of accuracy that is usually overlooked in many situations. The purpose of accuracy is to represent each CRL as best we can. The option to maintain a costume at level 1 or level 2 and hopefully level 3 we here on the FISD have been working hard since it's creation. During this time the CRL has evolved and included options that were before unknown. Now as new information comes to light, in the OT, and even for the TFA the CRL might evolve to accept a 4 holster bolt pattern, on a stunt suit. Just like we have added options to the ESB version CRL recently. I believe that the 4 bolt pattern on the hero belt is intended to make the hero designation 'stand out' and be different in scope from the stunt in this way. The CRL does not include costume mistakes, or errors in it. Yet some costumers take it to the 'replica' level of costuming by including errors, gaffers tape and other elements on their costumes. Trooping this way is fine. The Anovos sculpt is a cleaned up version designed from the lucasfilm archive content, it is not a replica by design. In the current hobby of costume designs we have RS Props who has actually simply recast and slightly modified the sculpt, as compared to the anovos design. So in our minds, the process used by RS Props seems superior to our design asthetics. we know the look of original armor, we want to see that in our vision of a repliica. EFX is working on a series of designs as well, and we also look forward to evaluating those with our expert eyes, as we in the FISD are pretty good judges of armor. after 8 years of looking at kit, after kit and more... we have learned a way of evaluating armor that can be pretty complicated. In the end, it's the wearer of a costume that derives their own personal joy out of owning it. It's also nice to be accepted by a fun loving community of experts too! That is why we have 3 levels of choice built into the system. For our own sweat, research and work to go into a costume that matters most to it's owner. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astyanax Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Thanks so much for this contribution Vern. Especially your last paragraph. That says it as I believe it. I think the key takeaway for me personally (as a newbie) is to really remember that we have these three levels of certification, and that this means there are really no major barriers here. No one is expecting the Anovos design to present a notable barrier to 501st admission, and no one is saying you can't go troop and warm the hearts of children (and their parents) around the world in Anovos-derived armor (with a good fitting and potentially minor modifications). But at the same time it is also important to remember there is a community here that is dedicated to realism and authenticity with regard to the original films, and that both communities overlap significantly, and are being honored at the same time. So what we get here at FISD is a wonderful spirit of all-inclusiveness. Whether you're into just the trooping, or also the purity of an amazingly near-perfect replica, the 501st and FISD are here to further both causes, ideally at the same time. What rocks most about this group is that everyone cares so much. Bill Edited November 10, 2015 by Astyanax 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The5thHorseman[TK] Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) There is a lot of talk about how accurate or not this kit is compared to other kits as well as the armor seen on screen.... We are all aware that Anovos' kit is based off of costumes from the Lucasfilm Archives, right? I don't agree with you on that point. Yes ANOVOS might have had access to the archives, and might have been authorized to take pictures, but I highly doubt they have been able to 3D scan, nor recast anything. So far, every props they're selling are coming from already established FAN-MADE kits. Yes, even their TFA stormtrooper is a fan made sculpt. To name few, they are working with MonCal, Kevin Weir from ImperialSurplus, and certainly other makers for their molds. And lastly, ask any experienced guy in Stormtrooper armors, he will tell you that their OT stormtrooper (at least their prototype) has a lot in common with the RS armor. But of course, they aren't going to advertise about that. Only on their "unprecedented access to Lucasfilm archives". It sounds so much better for customers. Edited November 10, 2015 by The5thHorseman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichtbringer Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Even if they would sell direct recasts of RS - i would be completely fine with that.<br><br> They pay the license fee, and RS are unauthorized bootlegers that only use a hole in justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseSwampy[TK] Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 You'd be fine with recast armour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=Sv3=[TK] Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I don't agree with you on that point. Yes ANOVOS might have had access to the archives, and might have been authorized to take pictures, but I highly doubt they have been able to 3D scan, nor recast anything. So far, every props they're selling are coming from already established FAN-MADE kits. Yes, even their TFA stormtrooper is a fan made sculpt. To name few, they are working with MonCal, Kevin Weir from ImperialSurplus, and certainly other makers for their molds. And lastly, ask any experienced guy in Stormtrooper armors, he will tell you that their OT stormtrooper (at least their prototype) has a lot in common with the RS armor. But of course, they aren't going to advertise about that. Only on their "unprecedented access to Lucasfilm archives". It sounds so much better for customers. Looking at the newest pictures of the Anovos ab/cod piece side by side with an RS, I have a really hard time believing they recast RS. IMO, they might have similar origins but Anovos has been cleaned up so much that they don't look the same at all. The general shape looks similar but the details, the sharpness and the smoothness of it really makes it it's own thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T K[501st] Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I say we wait to see what the armor really looks like when it starts showing up at people's doors. So far we are speculating, who knows exactly what it will look like? I am definitely interested in this though, as I want my armor to be the best it can be. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The5thHorseman[TK] Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) I agree with you Aaron, I just wanted to clear a little bit this myth like what ANOVOS sells only stuff cast off from original armors. Looking at the newest pictures of the Anovos ab/cod piece side by side with an RS, I have a really hard time believing they recast RS. IMO, they might have similar origins but Anovos has been cleaned up so much that they don't look the same at all. The general shape looks similar but the details, the sharpness and the smoothness of it really makes it it's own thing... That argument doesn't hold. NE armor is a RS recast yet all the lines are sanitized and sharper. The key thing is to look for specific features the RS armor has, such as very distintive shins, forearms, and other things they had to sculpt (or borrow masters from other people) to complete their original armor. Edited November 10, 2015 by The5thHorseman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aramis Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Don't forget either that the origin of ANOVOS' design is only part of the story...bringing that design, as intended, through manufacturing is a challenge in and of itself. They could have the world's most accurate design, but if they don't translate that properly through the manufacturing process, they can be adding or deleting details inadvertently. As in, through their choice of materials, how much detail to include in the bucks, etc. It's like trying to bend a flat piece of metal into a 90* shape. You can have a flat piece of metal, you can have a press buck formed at 90* to bend it over...and guess what, your piece that comes out won't be 90*. It's not the way materials behave. Accounting for material rheologies, the manufacturing process, etc. to get a part that actually matches your design is a lot harder than you think it is. Another anology is having to account for part shrinkage in injection molding, and sizing your molds "wrong" so that the parts come out the right size. I'm not defending ANOVOS at all...just pointing out that the design is only part of the story and that the manufacturing processes can make or break that design intent. Maybe this latest photo shows their shipping intent, or maybe they made the part only to realize they need to soften the bucks or use thicker material, etc....I have no idea. Edited November 10, 2015 by aramis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrates[TK] Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 For anyone else who has ordered a kit here are video links from YouTube that give a little more detail about the kits: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OFbBs9M0cqw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=beaHxW5o-uw Ello again! I posted these videos earlier on a different thread- they aren't the greatest videos but hoping it will help. Cheers fellow troopers! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=Sv3=[TK] Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I agree with you Aaron, I just wanted to clear a little bit this myth like what ANOVOS sells only stuff cast off from original armors. That argument doesn't hold. NE armor is a RS recast yet all the lines are sanitized and sharper. The key thing is to look for specific features the RS armor has, such as very distintive shins, forearms, and other things they had to sculpt (or borrow masters from other people) to complete their original armor. Yeah, I understand what you mean. There are details about RS that are unique to RS, from what I understand, because they had to resculpt some parts that were damaged or missing. We'll have to wait and see to settle that debate once and for all I guess. I understand recasting is bad, even though Anovos and Disney have the liscence, RS still did their own work and they don't deserve to have that stolen from them. I just hope it's not the case... Out of curiosity, could it be possible that Anovos had access to the same armor as RS? You know, just a thought... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryth_[501st] Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 RS own their armor. They didn't get that from the archives. So no. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The5thHorseman[TK] Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Out of curiosity, could it be possible that Anovos had access to the same armor as RS? You know, just a thought... They can access all the original parts the RS armor includes. But, having access to the reworked parts, and parts sculpted by Paul from TM seems highly improbable to me because they're pretty much unique. However, once again i would like to say that I don't exclude the possibility of RS working hand-in-hand with ANOVOS on that one. After all, that's what ANOVOS does: selling products of already established sellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 The origins of the ANOVOS sculpt seem to come from several iterations in design. It has been mentioned that these sources and workmanship has come from these makers: Mon Cal KW Then molds were produced in aluminum from that base design. (very like the old FX armor, which used an aluminum mold.) From a factory environment in china. so the design process has been described as using 3d scanning of helmets, and 3d printing used for the basis of some OT masks/helmet designs. it is a proven fact that all the anovos work comes from a combination of diverse manufacturing methods. Re-casting is only bad if you don't own the license to the source material. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt_Boodles Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 ...I highly doubt they have been able to 3D scan, nor recast anything. So far, every props they're selling are coming from already established FAN-MADE kits. Yes, even their TFA stormtrooper is a fan made sculpt. I don't believe this is true. 3D scanning was in fact the method they used for creating this kit. Like I said, this is the same way DICE was able to create the models for Battlefront. Both DICE and Anovos have been pretty open about using this method. Yes, they have said kits will be formed from their own sculpt, but given their access to archive materials, how can their fan-sculpt be any worse than any already existing fan sculpts? I have an especially hard time believing their TFA kit is a fan sculpt, given they've made it public that they used digital files from the new film to produce the armor, as well as in-person access to the costumes. Sure, the TK kit may have some room for criticism since it's based on a 30+ year old costume, but with everything in the new series being derived from digital renders, to suggest that they wouldn't use them seems wrong. Watch some of their interviews, or even shoot them an email or talk to them in-person at a convention or event. I'm sure they'll be happy to discuss. I'm not trying to come off as an obsessive fanboy, but I don't really see why when a company says "We use process XYZ" the response is that they should be immediately distrusted. Just because they're new to the game doesn't mean what they produce should be completely discredited and scrutinized. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 3d scanning and printing was used to create parts in the ANOVOS pipeline. A good fact! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Aloha[Admin] Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 I have this fantasy. You know how swear words get transformed on FISD into something less offensive? The forum software can be configured to do that to anything really. There is a good chance that I will make it so that anytime anyone uses the word Anovos on the forum it is transmogrified into "cute white fluffy bunnies sitting on rainbow next to a cute puppy." -Eric (not really) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 hacker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astyanax Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) There is a good chance that I will make it so that anytime anyone uses the word Anovos on the forum it is transmogrified into "cute white fluffy bunnies sitting on rainbow next to a cute puppy." That's it! I'm waiting for my CWFBSORNTACP (or FBSOR for short) armor!! Edited November 11, 2015 by Astyanax 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The5thHorseman[TK] Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Oh come on, the "cute white fluffy bunnies sitting on rainbow next to a cute puppy" TFA kit has been sculted by Kevin Weir from ImperialSurplus (you know, the same you has done those two amazing TFA kid-sized armors). At the time he surely had more reference materials than what we had, but this is certainly not coming from a original 3D file, or 3D scan of anything.... Everyone needs to chill about "cute white fluffy bunnies sitting on rainbow next to a cute puppy". They're certainly not the messiah you would think they are. I don't believe this is true. 3D scanning was in fact the method they used for creating this kit. Like I said, this is the same way DICE was able to create the models for Battlefront. Both DICE and Anovos have been pretty open about using this method. Yes, they have said kits will be formed from their own sculpt, but given their access to archive materials, how can their fan-sculpt be any worse than any already existing fan sculpts? I have an especially hard time believing their TFA kit is a fan sculpt, given they've made it public that they used digital files from the new film to produce the armor, as well as in-person access to the costumes. Sure, the TK kit may have some room for criticism since it's based on a 30+ year old costume, but with everything in the new series being derived from digital renders, to suggest that they wouldn't use them seems wrong. Watch some of their interviews, or even shoot them an email or talk to them in-person at a convention or event. I'm sure they'll be happy to discuss. I'm not trying to come off as an obsessive fanboy, but I don't really see why when a company says "We use process XYZ" the response is that they should be immediately distrusted. Just because they're new to the game doesn't mean what they produce should be completely discredited and scrutinized. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly11[Admin] Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Yep, "shucks"'is a word I see quite a bit on FISD, and I'm betting that is not what has been typed. So I use the age old work around "Sh!t" Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukswrath[Staff] Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Ahhh censorship 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Only jokingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukswrath[Staff] Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Only jokingly. I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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