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CableGuy

Early 2019 CRL update change requests

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32 minutes ago, CTID said:

Not talking centurion level Tony, but as I said above. Basic is VERY basic at the moment. There are troopers out there who will build to basic, and then be discouraged due to the extra work involved. I guess what I'm saying is that EIB standard should now be basic. Too many 501st garrisons out there clear on a basic level. Then you see other troopers copying their builds, which repeats a substandard build. I honestly believe that if basic was removed, then future builders would engage more with how closer they could get their kits than at the moment. Just my humble opinion, but think we are focussing on the wrong area atm

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I think there is more to it than just upping base requirements, though.

 

For one, getting people over to the detachment and getting them informed. I can only speak for myself and my Garrison mates, but when I first decided to build a TK, I was lucky enough to have found FISD and realized that if you're starting a BBB it's minimal effort over basic approval (and just a couple hundred dollars more in parts) to go for Centurion from the start.

 

My friend who joined at the same time didn't join FISD, build to the base CRL, and later, when I became an attache I tried to get him to go EI. He didn't. Why? Because he ignored L2 and L3 when building (because he didn't care at the time) and now if he wants to get his EIB badge (we aren't even talking Centurion) he'd have to rebuy quite a bit of his kit.

 

As for base requirements, maybe it is finally time to move many of the ANH/RoTJ split EI requirements (such as cover strips and rivets vs none) to base requirements?

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I concur, although I'm not sure that exact wording works.  Elbows are funny, and the armor is even stranger.  Perfect armor has a "gap", arguably, so I'd want to clarify exactly what is meant, here.  This is aimed at n00bs, not armor experts who know exactly what we're referring to when we say "elbow gap", and what we're NOT referring to.

I would agree that "suggested" on the elbow gap would be fine but should not be a sticking point. 

 

As I said earlier I am 6'3" with long arms and legs so for me to have no elbow gap looks super funny at my wrists with almost all of the glove cuff sticking out and freakishly long wrists. I can get some pictures this weekend if that helps. There needs to be some wiggle room for different body types and not just a hard rule saying no gap.

 

To give you some idea, I have the Anovos Classic TK kit and with no mods or shims I have no gap in the kidney, back or butt or any other parts but to get it to fit me I have a larger gap at the elbow and knees. Like I said long legs and arms should not bar me from Centurion.

548ecb65e2a07205e6b5be75508fba79.jpgc05db7a5a69028242297e0030d553b3e.jpg

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3 hours ago, Frank75139 said:

Why should one be kept from centurion due to fat fingers and bad paint skills.

 

 

Or anything else in life, for that matter...

 

A.J.

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1 hour ago, mikidymac said:

I would agree that "suggested" on the elbow gap would be fine but should not be a sticking point. 

 

As I said earlier I am 6'3" with long arms and legs so for me to have no elbow gap looks super funny at my wrists with almost all of the glove cuff sticking out and freakishly long wrists. I can get some pictures this weekend if that helps. There needs to be some wiggle room for different body types and not just a hard rule saying no gap.

 

To give you some idea, I have the Anovos Classic TK kit and with no mods or shims I have no gap in the kidney, back or butt or any other parts but to get it to fit me I have a larger gap at the elbow and knees. Like I said long legs and arms should not bar me from Centurion.

548ecb65e2a07205e6b5be75508fba79.jpgc05db7a5a69028242297e0030d553b3e.jpg

 

FWIW, I'm also 6'3" with the same armor, so I know what you mean.  Although I think your arms are a little longer than mine.

 

IMO there's nothing wrong with the "elbow gap" you have there.  There are people with far, far worse... I believe that's who the comments are addressing.  That said, yours could be reduced, if you wanted, by lowering the bicep armor.  It doesn't need to tuck quite as far up into the shoulder bell.

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It's completely doable however. this is an Anovos kit I built for someone who's 6'2". Those that have built Anovos or RS know there's not much room to spare. I could have dropped his biceps another 1/2" and moved his hand plate back slightly giving him a more uniform look. I swear the guy has a wingspan that of a 747 lol. Anyway, we decided comfort and practicality took a front seat to accuracy. And yes he's a Centurion ;)

 

 

IMG_7695.JPG

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2 hours ago, gmrhodes13 said:

 

 

I already hear us being called "elitist" don't think we want "discriminatory" added as well.

 

 

This right here is what I’m fearing from some of the conversation here.  I would hate for this detachment to start going down this very slippery slope.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, starsaber25 said:

 

This right here is what I’m fearing from some of the conversation here.  I would hate for this detachment to start going down this very slippery slope.

 

Yep

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It's completely doable however. this is an Anovos kit I built for someone who's 6'2". Those that have built Anovos or RS know there's not much room to spare. I could have dropped his biceps another 1/2" and moved his hand plate back slightly giving him a more uniform look. I swear the guy has a wingspan that of a 747 lol. Anyway, we decided comfort and practicality took a front seat to accuracy. And yes he's a Centurion 
 
 
IMG_7695.thumb.JPG.a3a0f7dca737b19ae45c5da3cd3afd59.JPG


Curiosity...
When did that costume pass centurion?


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15 minutes ago, Frank75139 said:

 


Curiosity...
When did that costume pass centurion?


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2016 04 01 

 

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11 minutes ago, StrmTRPR85 said:

how does everyone feel about gaps on the ears?  

Now you are going down a rabbit hole that will just piss more and more people off :laugh1:

I advise caution.

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40 minutes ago, Sly11 said:

Now you are going down a rabbit hole that will just piss more and more people off :laugh1:

I advise caution.

We can always bring up shins ;)

 

but i thought bring it up just to discuss and see if anyone has any thoughts.

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59 minutes ago, StrmTRPR85 said:

how does everyone feel about gaps on the ears?  

Got a ruler? JK

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Gaps don’t bother me as much as ears that are too thick. Plenty of film helmets with some ear gap.

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Guys, NOT RPF, please remember, we are a costuming club first and foremost.

Yep everyone is going to have some pet hates when it comes to CRL, and variation among costume builds, I know I do but!!  ask yourselves, do many of these small items really matter in the grand scheme of things.

I would hope that everyone here can look at and discuss what a CRL from basic and up, in the spirit of costuming should contain, because if we entertain every little item that every member doesn't like, the entire CRL will not resemble anything that looks like it was on screen.

I would also like to add, as I have earlier in these discussion that the DO's bring up anything that looks too far out of the box as a suggest to fix or even a must fix.

That being said, most of those that get the feedback from their application "DO" make those changes, without it having to reside in a CRL.

The DO's are also the guys in the firing line when it comes to back lash from CRL changes when they become too lets say, nit picky. (I used to be a DO, so I have seen this first hand.

Maybe concentrate on one item at a time before adding more and more things peeps dont like, and lets make sure we frame that item into the correct language as it would look in the CRL  and please make sure it is a change for the better.

 

Obviously this is all just my opinion and I'm happy to be proven wrong and my mind can always be changed  :)

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OK... Don't hate me, but since we are on the subject there are other dogs in this race.  I know this is going to cause a clusterfudge, but what about these previous discussions?

 

ROTJ  https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/45204-july-2018-request-for-crl-updates-thread/

 

1) Shoulder cover pop rivets. L2      

2) Thigh ammo belt secured with 3 pop rivets L2     

3) Sniper knee secured with pop rivets?   

4) Overlap construction L2

5) Forearm with return edge?  

6) Removal of the need for elastic strap around rear of shoulder bridge?

 

TKC     https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/45523-tkc-request-for-crl-updates-thread/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-634403

 

 

From

The thigh ammo belt shall be positioned on top of the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH.

To

The thigh ammo belt may be positioned on or above the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH.

 

Lastly, I think it might be wise to do some updating on the CRL photos themselves.  I realize that many may have been used just to have an example, but some need serious updating to reflect up to date changes, and some just look plain awful and are riddled with issues.  There are a lot of incredible L3s now who's armor better reflects a more ideal look.  Example:  giskard8 (Arthur) from the HKG attains the very definition of a CRL model in all his builds.

I know a while back that we changed the policy where weapons were no longer permitted to be shown with models (which I thought at first was strange but now I understand it completely) as they can cover up certain key areas, etc. (as in the present ANH-S pic) and are not a requirement for L1.

QO53eXP.jpg?2

 

These are the some that could use the updates, and if this is decided to be something we should pursue I am willing to spearhead the project.

ANH-S, ANH-H, ESB, R-1, TKC, ROTJ.  Thoughts?

 

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Guys, NOT RPF, please remember, we are a costuming club first and foremost.

Yep everyone is going to have some pet hates when it comes to CRL, and variation among costume builds, I know I do but!!  ask yourselves, do many of these small items really matter in the grand scheme of things.

I would hope that everyone here can look at and discuss what a CRL from basic and up, in the spirit of costuming should contain, because if we entertain every little item that every member doesn't like, the entire CRL will not resemble anything that looks like it was on screen.

I would also like to add, as I have earlier in these discussion that the DO's bring up anything that looks too far out of the box as a suggest to fix or even a must fix.

That being said, most of those that get the feedback from their application "DO" make those changes, without it having to reside in a CRL.

The DO's are also the guys in the firing line when it comes to back lash from CRL changes when they become too lets say, nit picky. (I used to be a DO, so I have seen this first hand.

Maybe concentrate on one item at a time before adding more and more things peeps dont like, and lets make sure we frame that item into the correct language as it would look in the CRL  and please make sure it is a change for the better.

 

Obviously this is all just my opinion and I'm happy to be proven wrong and my mind can always be changed 

I get what you’re saying, however, basic is still very achievable. This should easily cater for those that ‘just’ want to get into costuming. I think this also ensures that we’re not elitist.

 

It’s clear from the passion and skill across the community that this is more than costuming to some - this is a hobby. Building a top notch suit of armour with all the bells whistles deserves recognition for those that want to go the extra mile. However, we also do not look down upon those that simply want to pass basic and troop. As with many things in life, we all have personal goals.

 

Many of the ideas above have been listed as “suggested” changes. We’re not going to bully people into them - we can use this as recommendations for those that want to build in more detail. I feel that if some of these were listed as “ideally” this and “suggested” that, we are simply adding to the knowledge bank available to new members.

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OK... Don't hate me, but since we are on the subject there are other dogs in this race.  I know this is going to cause a clusterfudge, but what about these previous discussions?
 
ROTJ  https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/45204-july-2018-request-for-crl-updates-thread/
 

1) Shoulder cover pop rivets. L2      

2) Thigh ammo belt secured with 3 pop rivets L2     

3) Sniper knee secured with pop rivets?   

4) Overlap construction L2

5) Forearm with return edge?  

6) Removal of the need for elastic strap around rear of shoulder bridge?

 

TKC     https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/45523-tkc-request-for-crl-updates-thread/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-634403

 

 

From

The thigh ammo belt shall be positioned on top of the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH.

To

The thigh ammo belt may be positioned on or above the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH.

 

Lastly, I think it might be wise to do some updating on the CRL photos themselves.  I realize that many may have been used just to have an example, but some need serious updating to reflect up to date changes, and some just look plain awful and are riddled with issues.  There are a lot of incredible L3s now who's armor better reflects a more ideal look.  Example:  giskard8 (Arthur) from the HKG attains the very definition of a CRL model in all his builds.

I know a while back that we changed the policy where weapons were no longer permitted to be shown with models (which I thought at first was strange but now I understand it completely) as they can cover up certain key areas, etc. (as in the present ANH-S pic) and are not a requirement for L1.

QO53eXP.jpg?2&key=31e820027e8d7c05b4aa9ec1481f614beaae17be5043bf327ecbcd7157c985fd

 

These are the some that could use the updates, and if this is decided to be something we should pursue I am willing to spearhead the project.

ANH-S, ANH-H, ESB, R-1, TKC, ROTJ.  Thoughts?

 


Based on the well presented evidence/reference material provided in the ROTJ thread, I agree with the changes for higher levels.

Good point in the CRL photos. For example, the E-11 reference photo STILL has the magazine end cap/plate on the wrong way round - this is not a good representation.

3820e06531eed2c312cd5a322039e60d.jpg

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36 minutes ago, justjoseph63 said:

OK... Don't hate me, but since we are on the subject there are other dogs in this race.  I know this is going to cause a clusterfudge, but what about these previous discussions?

 

ROTJ  https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/45204-july-2018-request-for-crl-updates-thread/

 

1) Shoulder cover pop rivets. L2      

2) Thigh ammo belt secured with 3 pop rivets L2     

3) Sniper knee secured with pop rivets?   

4) Overlap construction L2

5) Forearm with return edge?  

6) Removal of the need for elastic strap around rear of shoulder bridge?

 

TKC     https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/45523-tkc-request-for-crl-updates-thread/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-634403

 

 

From

The thigh ammo belt shall be positioned on top of the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH.

To

The thigh ammo belt may be positioned on or above the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH.

 

Lastly, I think it might be wise to do some updating on the CRL photos themselves.  I realize that many may have been used just to have an example, but some need serious updating to reflect up to date changes, and some just look plain awful and are riddled with issues.  There are a lot of incredible L3s now who's armor better reflects a more ideal look.  Example:  giskard8 (Arthur) from the HKG attains the very definition of a CRL model in all his builds.

I know a while back that we changed the policy where weapons were no longer permitted to be shown with models (which I thought at first was strange but now I understand it completely) as they can cover up certain key areas, etc. (as in the present ANH-S pic) and are not a requirement for L1.

QO53eXP.jpg?2

 

These are the some that could use the updates, and if this is decided to be something we should pursue I am willing to spearhead the project.

ANH-S, ANH-H, ESB, R-1, TKC, ROTJ.  Thoughts?

 

I highlighted on the first page some of the outstanding CRL’s, also been adding them as a reminder in the last few newsletter drafts, but nobody bit.

 

Ongoing CRL To Be Updated:

 

ROTJ text updates 

TKC detonator photos to be added also wording changed for thigh ammo strip here

ESB no bicep hooks L3, info here

 

Perhaps these can be finalised before additional work on CRL’s be continued.

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2 minutes ago, gmrhodes13 said:

ROTJ text updates 

TKC detonator photos to be added also wording changed for thigh ammo strip here

ESB no bicep hooks L3, info here

Sorry I missed those, brother.   So many to keep up with, lol!

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled program:

I hope it isn't coming across that I want to make it more difficult ("elitist") for anyone to reach higher levels.  Many (if not most) of the fine folks I troop with are happy as clams to stay at basic approval, and I am totally fine with that!  As I mentioned before, it's all about having fun, camaraderie and doing some good at the same time!

Every one of the items I suggested (as changed in the updated list) pertain only to level 3, and not unrealistic to achieve (with the exception of the "ideal" ears and shoulder bridges/bells in some cases).  We have seen people do amazing things when they are suggested! 

They are not requirements, and of course not everyone will, but those that do set their sights for the higher levels will have a more defined picture of what to aim for.  When John/Jane Futuretrooper are looking at the basic CRL requirements they may just see the L2 and 3 ones and think "Hmmmm... I can do that"!  Even if they don't apply, they will have a better looking set of armor.

 

In theory, we could spend the next 6 months discussing them, but imho at some point we will need to 'decide to make some decisions" and set some of these issues in stone, so to speak.  My suggestions were only that... suggestions, and I am comfortable with any changes that may or not be made.

 

 

 

 

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We could always just change the title to Early 2020 CRL update change requests....

We’ve already got more pages then days in the year we’ve been through. Just imagine the great ideas we’ll have by 2020


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Sorry to derail further but it just popped in my head: do we have the mandate to change the basic CRL for the entire Legion? 

 

Also...and this might sting a little: if we are concerned about what people persive of us (as we should) then perhaps it’s a good Idea to remove a thread that is dedicated for making fun of peoples costume.

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Me waking up to see the posts doubled and I have a ton more reading to do:
ddd68619a9ed29f65c664293eaeb10c2.gif

I propose an award for all of us who are reading all these posts. And a second award for all who endure my off-topic humor to change things up a little.


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Sorry to derail further but it just popped in my head: do we have the mandate to change the basic CRL for the entire Legion? 
 
Also...and this might sting a little: if we are concerned about what people persive of us (as we should) then perhaps it’s a good Idea to remove a thread that is dedicated for making fun of peoples costume.

But that’s comedic gold! Besides, I posted MY horrible costume, as did Frank. Maybe we just take it down and start a new one then that are posts of all of OUR worst Star Wars costumes? Us poking fun at ourselves?


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Dan (CableGuy)- because this thread is so long and ranging from a wide range of topics, with no end in site, what if you just posted a survey to take all of our votes on the various items you and the rest of Command staff are looking at possibly changing on the CRL?

So for example:
1) Brow Height: Change the language for Centurion to state “Brow height must be 5mm above lenses”

Yes. No

2) Tube stripes:

Yes No

3) Ear Angle: Centurion language shall state “Ear angle shall be blah blah blah”

Get what I’m saying? I feel like this thread is going to be longer than all the intros to every Star Wars film. I’m thinking you just put all the proposed CRL changes to a vote to Command Staff and attachés and call it a day.


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