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ukswrath

July 2018 Request for CRL Updates thread

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ROTJ CRL updates:

 

1) Shoulder cover pop rivets. L2      In progress working on correct language

2) Thigh ammo belt secured with 3 pop rivets L2      In progress working on correct language

3) Sniper knee secured with pop rivets?     Discussion stage

4) Overlap construction L2

5) Fore arms with return edge?   Discussion stage

6) Removal of the need for elastic strap around rear of shoulder bridge?  In Discussion stage

 

 

TORJ%203.jpgTORJ%202.jpg

 

 

What's the official stance on the thigh ammo belt connections? 

 

 

 

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So I think that the photos speak for themselves, the rivets are there (shoulders), and should be covered under the CRL. as far as the sniper knee goes, is there any evidence of this, and was this widely used, or just a quick fix for a trooper with an armor issue. I think we should try and find at least 3 instances of that build technique being used to say that it was a common practice within the build of the armor itself. Just as there are tons of variations with ANH, but the large majority is what the CRL follows. Do we have any screen shots plus prop shots we can base it off of?

 

Edited by Commander Gree
clarification added

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1 hour ago, ukswrath said:

ROTJ CRL updates:

 

Shoulder cover pop rivets. Previous discussion thread 

 

TORJ%203.jpgTORJ%202.jpg

 

 

What's the official stance on the thigh ammo belt connections? 

 

 

 

I am not able to see the Rivet discussion because it shows I don't have the permission

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2 minutes ago, Commander Gree said:

So I think that the photos speak for themselves, the rivets are there (shoulders), and should be covered under the CRL. as far as the sniper knee goes, is there any evidence of this, and was this widely used, or just a quick fix for a trooper with an armor issue. I think we should try and find at least 3 instances of that build technique being used to say that it was a common practice within the build of the armor itself. Just as there are tons of variations with ANH, but the large majority is what the CRL follows. Do we have any screen shots plus prop shots we can base it off of?

 

Well I stated thigh "Ammo Pack", but who knows on the sniper knee as well.

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1 minute ago, ukswrath said:

Well I stated thigh "Ammo Pack", but who knows on the sniper knee as well.

ah yes sorry about that. I was reading over the EIB submission and it was talking about the sniper knee. merged the 2 in my mind lol. ill look into the ammo pack as well, but I would assume they didn't use the pop rivets.

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Forgot it started in the staff section then moved into general, here's some highlights.

 

 

Kidney & Posterior Armor
For 501st approval:
  • A white flexible U shaped gasket or molded lip is present around all edges.
  • A separate kidney/posterior armor is not allowed - the kidney and posterior are combined/fused to a single plate/one piece.
  • The crotch tab of the butt plate area may or may not have visible snaps.

 

For level two certification (if applicable):
  • The edges of the hip area should be rounded/curved (not like the straight lines found on the ANH/ESB butt plate).
For level three certification (if applicable):
  • There are no visible side rivets on the kidney plate, unlike ANH/ESB suits.
  • There are no visible snaps, rivets or brads on the crotch tab of the Posterior Armor tab.

 

However, I have been going through screen shots of ROTJ with the help of Joe and it is very clear to me that a snap does appear on the butt plate.  Is this something that could possibly be removed from the Centurion requirements?  Here are the photos:

 

B051DE55-9DC3-4D40-B255-059064AB3187.thu

 

62537ACE-C071-4558-A58A-398A483E6728.thu

 

9AAEB69D-723A-4195-BB86-D0BC3EFFE1FC.thu

 

4A393915-ED14-46BE-AB8E-495493E31F9B.thu

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I’m in favour of the shoulder rivets. There was a thread by CFO when Tim was DCO where I spent a fair while finding evidence. There’s not a lot but there’s a few frames where I believe they are visible. Sadly most shots of TKs are either the wrong angle, too far away or too much motion.

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2 minutes ago, ukswrath said:

Forgot it started in the staff section then moved into general, here's some highlights.

 

So I know it's rare to have someone in your garrison doing a ROTJ build.  But I have a member Joe Mantello who has a TM ROTJ TK and is looking to achieve EIB and Centurion.  I have gone over the CRLs with him and I have seen his armor a few times in person.  It really is a beautifully assembled set of armor.  However, there is an issue that I am having and I am wondering if this has been discussed before.  There are questions in regards to a snap in the butt plate.  The CRLs are clear that a visible snap is not allowed for Centurion:

 

 

Kidney & Posterior Armor
For 501st approval:
  • A white flexible U shaped gasket or molded lip is present around all edges.
  • A separate kidney/posterior armor is not allowed - the kidney and posterior are combined/fused to a single plate/one piece.
  • The crotch tab of the butt plate area may or may not have visible snaps.

 

For level two certification (if applicable):
  • The edges of the hip area should be rounded/curved (not like the straight lines found on the ANH/ESB butt plate).
For level three certification (if applicable):
  • There are no visible side rivets on the kidney plate, unlike ANH/ESB suits.
  • There are no visible snaps, rivets or brads on the crotch tab of the Posterior Armor tab.

 

However, I have been going through screen shots of ROTJ with the help of Joe and it is very clear to me that a snap does appear on the butt plate.  Is this something that could possibly be removed from the Centurion requirements?  Here are the photos:

 

B051DE55-9DC3-4D40-B255-059064AB3187.thu

 

62537ACE-C071-4558-A58A-398A483E6728.thu

 

9AAEB69D-723A-4195-BB86-D0BC3EFFE1FC.thu

 

4A393915-ED14-46BE-AB8E-495493E31F9B.thu

This is good enough for me. I think the snap should be allowed. also , in the last photo you posted it looks like a rivet in the knee that is not a pop rivet.

 

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Just now, themaninthesuitcase said:

I’m in favour of the shoulder rivets. There was a thread by CFO when Tim was DCO where I spent a fair while finding evidence. There’s not a lot but there’s a few frames where I believe they are visible. Sadly most shots of TKs are either the wrong angle, too far away or too much motion.

Like the photos at the top of this page?

 

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The sniper knee plate is the item I am concerned about at the moment, as well as the use of pop rivets in lieu of the split or cap type.  The above photo Tony posted of the ammo pack does not appear to be a pop rivet.

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Just now, Commander Gree said:

This is good enough for me. I think the snap should be allowed. also , in the last photo you posted it looks like a rivet in the knee that is not a pop rivet.

 

 

Starsaber25 says he has additional photos he'll post later today, stay tuned

 

 

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Just now, justjoseph63 said:

The sniper knee plate is the item I am concerned about at the moment, as well as the use of pop rivets in lieu of the split or cap type.  The above photo Tony posted of the ammo pack does not appear to be a pop rivet.

Agreed.

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Like the photos at the top of this page?
 

Aye, that one with the arrow is as good as it gets though. There was a few counters of “it might be a on set repair which as you know we don’t allow for”.
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1 minute ago, ukswrath said:

 

Starsaber25 says he has additional photos he'll post later today, stay tuned

 

 

Steve to the rescue!!  :jc_doublethumbup:

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Just now, themaninthesuitcase said:


Aye, that one with the arrow is as good as it gets though. There was a few counters of “it might be a on set repair which as you know we don’t allow for”.

This was my thought. which is why I think, and I know it will be hard, but that we would maybe need multiple counts of evidence to say its Cannon.

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From Steve (starsaber25)

 

"Here are some photos that I have laying around.  One thing is very clear.  They certainly built the suits with the overlap method.  And there is even another back pic here where you can see that there is a snap present in the butt plate.

 

HdBnJ8b.jpg

 

ekAHYnl.jpg

 

RUaTFZa.jpg

 

aSiWlal.jpg

 

PXIp4uO.jpg

 

2Jzth00.jpg

 

hJ2CJjd.jpg

 

And here are the pop rivets:

 

5X1vc7m.jpg

 

I can only assume that the pop rivets on that shin were there for the sniper plate.  But I even thought I had some more.  I'm going to try and figure out what I did with them.  But I will copy my post from the June 2018 CRL update thread and put them in the July 2018 CRL update thread.

 

Again just to put this all in one post:

 

image.png

 

On all of the parts for level three where it talks about constructing using the butt join and cover strip method I think it should be changed.  I think instead of just allowing it, I think it should be required for level 3 to have the overlap method.  I mean I'm pretty sure that CFO and TM are the only ones making ROTJ armor and both of them work for overlap construction. 

 

I also think that we should allow for pop rivets for the sniper plate and the ammo pack.  And also for the rivet in the shoulder bridges.  I would just have to dig up that post to get the photos."

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16 minutes ago, ukswrath said:

Top of the page updated

I say yes to all, except for the return edges. maybe stating "some return edge is acceptable" L2. there are obvious signs of it where the ridge is on the forearms

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Just putting this out there, but considering the Shock trooper is based off RotJ from the game, should this CRL also be looked at and revisions made to suit??

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16 minutes ago, Sly11 said:

Just putting this out there, but considering the Shock trooper is based off RotJ from the game, should this CRL also be looked at and revisions made to suit??

Good call Andrew

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14 hours ago, ukswrath said:

ROTJ CRL updates:

 

1) Shoulder cover pop rivets. L2

2) Thigh ammo belt secured with 3 pop rivets L2

3) Sniper knee secured with pop rivets?

4) Overlap construction L2

5) Fore arms with return edge?

 

 

IMHO,  it looks as if the mystery of the pop rivets on the thigh ammo pack and sniper knee plate is solved, and that can be laid to rest.  The only thing I am wondering about is the return edge on the forearm.  That may have been a one-off.

 

Just found this as well: 

 

dIBOWnQ.jpg?1

4 hours ago, Sly11 said:

Just putting this out there, but considering the Shock trooper is based off RotJ from the game, should this CRL also be looked at and revisions made to suit??

Absolutely, and as soon as possible.  We don't get a lot of ROTJ L2 and 3 submissions, but we need to update the CRL to keep things current.

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Well I came here to learn right!?! can someone tell me what needs to be done for the CRL to change? I see in the JRS forum they claim they aren't even consulted about CRL changes. is there something we as the FISD can actually do? or is it up in the air and we have to hope it lands right? you would think with as large as the 501st has gotten, the heads would want to leave it up to each detachment to write the CRL and submit it to the board

 

how often does the CRL change, or how often can it change?

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2 hours ago, Commander Gree said:

Well I came here to learn right!?! can someone tell me what needs to be done for the CRL to change? I see in the JRS forum they claim they aren't even consulted about CRL changes. is there something we as the FISD can actually do? or is it up in the air and we have to hope it lands right? you would think with as large as the 501st has gotten, the heads would want to leave it up to each detachment to write the CRL and submit it to the board

 

how often does the CRL change, or how often can it change?

Our detachment leader Paul @Daetrinshould chime is at some stage as he does make changes to FISD CRL's

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