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It's all recast


TK4205
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Mabye the 'hoops' are there to see who's really interested in joining the 501st, of becoming part of something, not just looking for a halloween costume. Most people that are here, are here because they really love SW, and the TK especially. Perhaps the small amout of effort that is needed to find out who does what separates those people from the afore mentioned Halloween costumers. Just my thoughts. I don't know of any 'elitists' here. I've only been here a few months, and everyone's been awesome to me, and any other new people I've seen.

 

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Recasters and the guys that make crummy armor will always have a group of buyers simply because of the fact that the suppliers we all know about TE, TE2, AP are hidden. If you don’t have the secret handshake and the prerequisite amount of posts next to your name then getting any armor from them is impossible. If a noob came on this site and wanted to purchases some armor and begin down the glorious road that is Star Wars costuming he or she would be virtually unable to do so. That is why the recasters on the dreaded Ebay will have a market until we let loose a bit.

Having been ther done that ....you nailed it for me.

 

I must admit I've made the mistake of the bay. I didn't know where else to ge to find armor. I've spent my money on what I've come to find to be recast, until I found this site I was ignorant to the facts, and gullible. If I had known I would have rather spent my money on first run casting and not the reduced xerox copy. I can only blame myself and learn from my mistakes. I have friends that value my opinions as well as I'm sure others here. With the help of the members here on the FISD I have found valued armor and can give educated advice to other would be consumers.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is, at sometime weren't we all new at something and made mistakes. Then a friend came along and you asked for a opinion or advice. That advice might have saved you from making another mistake.

 

That is what friends are for, and that is what the FISD can do.

 

Thanks to everyone here that has taken the time ( with dicussions like this )to help this newbie learn a little more. :duim:

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I just don't think it's that hard to do a tad bit of research and reading. I had all the information I needed, and was pointed in the right direction within days of joining. This is a community after all, and I don't think that showing a little desire to be a part of the community is bad. This isn't TK- Walmart, it's an online hobby community. I just don't think it's as difficult as you're making it out to be guys.

 

EDIT:: Also, Don't forget that this board exists as a Detachment of the 501st. There are 501st guidelines, and rules that the site adheres to per the 501st Charter. Don't lose sight of that fact as well.

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Mabye the 'hoops' are there to see who's really interested in joining the 501st, of becoming part of something, not just looking for a halloween costume.

 

Yup, that's pretty much why. This is a 501st forum for 501st members and prospective members primarily. We're lucky to have people like TrooperMaster, Pablo, etc. for the reason below:

 

Most people that are here, are here because they really love SW, and the TK especially.

 

So two audiences: 501st is the primary, people with a love of strormtroopers as the secondary. We really have no interest in being a place or a resource for people who's sole purpose coming here is to buy armor. Nor are we a general prop making/buying board like the RPF.

 

We are a distinct club (501st) and community (FISD), and we as staff have a responsibility to protect that club and community. This is why we have a recasting policy, and open recasting is strictly not condoned (per 501st charter).

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Having been ther done that ....you nailed it for me.

 

I must admit I've made the mistake of the bay. I didn't know where else to ge to find armor. I've spent my money on what I've come to find to be recast, until I found this site I was ignorant to the facts, and gullible. If I had known I would have rather spent my money on first run casting and not the reduced xerox copy. I can only blame myself and learn from my mistakes. I have friends that value my opinions as well as I'm sure others here. With the help of the members here on the FISD I have found valued armor and can give educated advice to other would be consumers.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is, at sometime weren't we all new at something and made mistakes. Then a friend came along and you asked for a opinion or advice. That advice might have saved you from making another mistake.

 

That is what friends are for, and that is what the FISD can do.

 

Thanks to everyone here that has taken the time ( with dicussions like this )to help this newbie learn a little more. :duim:

 

This is also why any time any one expresses interest in the 501st via the 501st, whether it be via their GML or this detachment, we do try to help people. As a GML I always pointed people to the relevant detachment for help in my initial reply, and why for all new people here we encourage them to contact their local garrison or outpost. This way people get information before making a purchase.

 

For myself I bought armor before I heard of the 501st - so I do empathize with people did this too. Heck, one of the main reasons I founded this detachment was to help prospective members avoid the mistakes I made.

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With respect to the owners of those Vader castings, they are not original pieces. IMO there is a huge difference between casting a 2nd generation piece and an original. Huge.

 

Cheers

 

Jez

 

Interesting. PM sent. ;)

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Yup, that's pretty much why. This is a 501st forum for 501st members and prospective members primarily. We're lucky to have people like TrooperMaster, Pablo, etc. for the reason below:

 

QUOTE (Sgt JB @ Oct 24 2009, 05:02 AM)

Most people that are here, are here because they really love SW, and the TK especially.

 

 

So two audiences: 501st is the primary, people with a love of strormtroopers as the secondary. We really have no interest in being a place or a resource for people who's sole purpose coming here is to buy armor. Nor are we a general prop making/buying board like the RPF.

 

We are a distinct club (501st) and community (FISD), and we as staff have a responsibility to protect that club and community. This is why we have a recasting policy, and open recasting is strictly not condoned (per 501st charter).

 

Thanks Paul :)

 

That's exactly why I'm here in this great detachment, for the love of SW and TK character. But I'm discovering what being part of the 501st means, and it's great.

 

As for all this recasting debate: the horse as been beaten to death and beyond...

 

I see it like this: it's no different than stealing.

 

If I ask for permission and obtain it, I can take and use someone else's property.

If not, I'm a thief.

 

It's that simple.

 

 

There are no "Robin Hood" motivations in this hobby.

 

 

And thanks to the FISD I avoided buying an FX from Costumejunkie on ebay.

I took my time, studied a lot, waited almost two years, and I'm finally a soon-to-be EIB with a beautiful TM.

 

Thanks to this great community :salute:

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And I must just say that everything said after my post was spot on. you guys are the cream of the crop let me assure you of that. I purchased my armor from TE and was lucky, let me reiterate that LUCKY! I had no idea who he even was when I met up with him to talk price. Can you belive that I bumbled into TEs kitchen and talked armor. If I had not lucked into that I would have bought some recast trash on ebay. I found the FISD after my experience with TE, and needed to make some MUCH needed repairs. Without this sort of group and forum, even more peopel would be buying crummy stuff off ebay. As far as SDS goes, I think that law suit stems from a LONG line of bad blood between these guys. Just an opinion. Peace out!

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I just don't think it's that hard to do a tad bit of research and reading. I had all the information I needed, and was pointed in the right direction within days of joining. This is a community after all, and I don't think that showing a little desire to be a part of the community is bad. This isn't TK- Walmart, it's an online hobby community. I just don't think it's as difficult as you're making it out to be guys.

 

EDIT:: Also, Don't forget that this board exists as a Detachment of the 501st. There are 501st guidelines, and rules that the site adheres to per the 501st Charter. Don't lose sight of that fact as well.

 

You know what, your right.

you changed my mind, and I agree with you. I really didn't think about it that way. I was just thinking about it from he point of view of how hard it can be to get into the hobby sometimes. Great points!

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I'm going to throw my 2 cents in, hopefully to try and defuse a potentially harmful situation.

 

First of all, as a newbie, I didn't know where to go to get my armor. Since I had decided to do my TIE Pilot first, I did use the bay as I didn't have anywhere else to get my helmet. Most prop makers aren't making TIE Pilots, and I didn't want to wait a year after I had ordered one to receive it. JRS allows the Rubies helmet (with modifications) and I'm also trying to get a Don Post Classic (off the bay because they aren't available anywhere else). The rest of my armor and uniform I got through my local garrison and members of the JRS.

 

As for stormtrooper armor, I didn't know where to go. Recasters? :huh: So yeah, I looked at the bay, didn't purchase, but doing more research found a site mentioning TE, TE2, AP, TM, etc. No idea how to contact these people regarding armor...getting a little frustrated now. Went back to my local garrison and talked with some of them, they pointed me back to the 501st site and then here. I'm hanging out, learning all I can before I invest a good portion of time and money into what I want as armor. Most newbies don't understand contacting the local garrison, doing their homework, etc. They want it now. Don't get me wrong, if I find someone has recast armor without permission, I won't purchase from them...that is not right. But if I had innocently purchased recast armor, I would never have known the difference. Now that I know, I have my short list of persons I would love to purchase from, just have to finish what I'm doing and save up the money :o (sticker shock)

Perhaps we can keep this discussion down to one of just directing people towards the correct armor makers. I know that when I'm ready to purchase my armor, I'm going to ask people here to PM me contact information so I can get what I want. Yes, recasting is not ethically correct, but unfortunately it is a fact of life. Lets try and keep things on an even keel so newbies will feel welcome to ask questions and get directed to those armor makers who are honorable. As a newbie, if I hadn't felt welcome here, I would have left the forum, probably purchased from a recaster on the bay, and tried to get into my local garrison. I'm rather shy in person and not one to put myself forward and make a nuisance of myself to my garrison. Yes, there are hoops to jump through to become a member of the 501st, but thank heaven Daetrin was willing to start this forum to help those of us who are trying to jump through those hoops by giving us the training needed from those who have been there done that.

 

I'm jumping off my soap box now.

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...

I see it like this: it's no different than stealing.

...

 

The problem is that people that recast are committing copyright infringement, just like the original casters. Copyright infringement is not the same as stealing (basicly think of it like this, stealing is when you have an apple and some one takes that apple. copyright infringement is when you have an apple and some one else makes an apple (be it copying your apple or not), thus you do not lose your ability to sell your apple, it's just devalued.)

 

Key problem is TE, TE, AP, ATA, all of them are committing copyright infringement -- the people casting from molds made from screen casts more so then others.

 

Everyone is in the wrong technically, we're just really into the pot calling the kettle black around here.

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The problem is that people that recast are committing copyright infringement, just like the original casters. Copyright infringement is not the same as stealing (basicly think of it like this, stealing is when you have an apple and some one takes that apple. copyright infringement is when you have an apple and some one else makes an apple (be it copying your apple or not), thus you do not lose your ability to sell your apple, it's just devalued.)

 

Key problem is TE, TE, AP, ATA, all of them are committing copyright infringement -- the people casting from molds made from screen casts more so then others.

 

You raise a valid point. Its all copyright infringement from the oiginal. But as long as Lucas dont mind, its ok. And its all recast.

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You raise a valid point. Its all copyright infringement from the oiginal. But as long as Lucas dont mind, its ok. And its all recast.

 

The problem is GL does mind, He went after SDS didn't he? And that's all based on copyright and license.................

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Hi.

 

As a newcomer from Germany, I would like to say something.

 

Of course, I agree with your opinion about recaster, but often we have no other choice.

 

Rationale:

 

Some manufacturers of you refuse to deliver their products to germany.

Our mails are not answered, or refused without further justification.

 

From this I conclude: germany is on the blacklist

 

Certainly there are recaster in germany, however where are they not?

But that is no reason to treat everyone in a country like recaster.

 

If the embargo continues, we can only buy recasts. (I don´t speak about "standard" costumes like a Stormtrooper)

Or we bury our dream since we don´t want to spend so much money for bad recasts.

 

Not every one of us has the ability to produce an armor.

 

I thought always it means worldwide community and not hostility....

 

These are my impressions and my thoughts.

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AND declared openly that the rights were his. Pretty much the act of a complete moron.

 

But in an English court of law they are! The license only last 15 years as it is industrial design.

Don't forget what is law in the States is very different to law in the UK.

Things were said by AA that shouldn't have been said granted, but it doesn't change the law and that is all GL and AA have on their side.

Do you know AA? He is far from a complete moron. I beg anyone here to not fabricate and big up your involvement in something if you are being sued for £30 million!. I think he could have said things differently but he didn't. As I said I am not excusing his words, he shouldn't have said what he did. But none of us was there in 1976 when he was. So none of us can comment on what was said and done. It is between GL and AA and it's their fight.

To pass judgment on someone from what you have read is ignorant so don't go there.........

And to just add that without AA none of you would be wearing that armor you are now....

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The problem is GL does mind, He went after SDS didn't he? And that's all based on copyright and license.................

 

For normal people yes. But Steve Sansweet - a top LFL employee - also stated that the 501st can make armor for their own personal use. It may seem unfair to some, but the reality is that Uncle George gets a lot of free, good publicity out of the 501st and influences the club's behavior. In return, we're thrown a bone. Yes, we (as 501st) get a benefit, but for those of you not in the 501st realize we pay a price too. The fact that we are a club, and you have to abide by club rules. And, LFL influence as well. Not for everyone for sure, and some people who make armor have no interest at all in the 501st though they sure want us to spend $$ with them.

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For normal people yes. But Steve Sansweet - a top LFL employee - also stated that the 501st can make armor for their own personal use. It may seem unfair to some, but the reality is that Uncle George gets a lot of free, good publicity out of the 501st and influences the club's behavior. In return, we're thrown a bone. Yes, we (as 501st) get a benefit, but for those of you not in the 501st realize we pay a price too. The fact that we are a club, and you have to abide by club rules. And, LFL influence as well. Not for everyone for sure, and some people who make armor have no interest at all in the 501st though they sure want us to spend $$ with them.

 

Agreed.

 

Back to the recasting argument. Bottom line is if someone spends time, effort and a lot of cash replicating an original item, then it doesnt give someone else the right to buy one and knock off some cheap copies.

 

To say that "its all recast" is a lazy argument, suggesting that everything is fair game. This road only stifles people prepared to invest in bringing something new to the hobby.

 

Cheers

 

Jez

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