Daetrin

Anytime anyone makes their own bucket from scratch - man what a lot of work. I commend you on taking up this challenge. It may take a few versions, but how many people can say they sculpted their own? Great job

TE2 also comes with the ab plate cover as a separate item, so it's just as easy and putting it on the other way.

OK, I shouldn't but I was struck by the simpleness of this distinction I'll post. Thanks Jonah:

OK, I'm locking. Seems there's nothing new being added and it's just devolved like all such threads do.

If it seems that I'm taking baby steps, it's because even though I founded this place, even though I have 4000 posts, even though blah blah blah, this is still a 501st forum, and while I still retain a lot of control (sorry Terrell), I can run this place by my personal fiat.

Found this post by Skaught on the RPF. I believe it captures the situation in a nutshell I invite anyone to PM or email me directly - [email protected]. I will reply to all messages sent. Actually the policy states that we don't condone the activity. Next question then: does that mean that if the 501st doesn't condone such activity, that we can prevent the sale of such items on this board, as allowing them to occur means that we're condoning that activity?

Double standard for some. I think the only thing that is clear is that everyone has their own opinion and will find whatever arguments they want to support it. My argument against recasting in almost all cases is that it erodes our prop making ecosystem. If we don't have prop makers, we're out of a hobby. Unless you're in that extreme minority of people willing to spend years of their lives making their own stuff. So for you folks saying it's always OK to recast, does that mean you feel it's OK to recast Stomper's E-11s? Is it 100% OK to recast clone armor? What do you say to these guys at a troop or con when you meet them, I really want to know.

Everyone has an opinion Here is a summary of the ones I'm finding: 1.Recasting in general 1A. Everyone is recasting LFL so since we're all doing it, it doesn't matter who you buy from. 1B. Recasting is fine in certain circumstances, but in general is bad joo joo. 1C. Recasting of any kind is evil. 2. Recasting Other People's Original Work (If someone makes a part from scratch on their own (like sculpting their own TK armor) 2A. If you recast them, it's a recast and this is very bad. 2B. If they no longer offer it, it's OK to recast until they offer it again. 2C. Who cares just recast away! 3. Recasting LFL property (If someone recasts LFL property like a suit of TK) 3A. It's OK to recast them as it wasn't their work to begin with. 3B. It's OK to recast them, this is still considered "original" work and recasting them is bad joo joo. 3C. If someone else comes along and recasts that same piece of property (maybe a different suit), they're OK too as they just did what the other guy did. 4. Recasting licensed LFL items (like a MR Helmet) 4A. Who cares - it's a company, not a person. 4B. No, it's still recasting.

Lastly, if you guys don't stop personal attacks accounts will be suspended until you cool out.

All recasting posts have been moved. 1. Don - thanks for clarifying the history of FX - we learn something new every day. The FX I got was from 2001 and had the older thighs - was this still GF at that point? Just wondering at what time the switch was made. 2. For those not in the 501st, please realize that this is a decisive issue within the club and don't paint everyone with the same brush, though it's true the 501st includes in it's membership some notorious recasters, I think this is slowly changing. 3. As Ed said the best defense is education. Even on a non-501st board like C-E or wherever where they can create ban lists and recaster lists etc., while it helps people on those boards it seems recasting is just as prevalent now as before. I've found taking a negative stance e.g. "recasting sucks and you're all thieves!" never works. Banging on Chris all you want, I don't think is going to change his mind. I'd also like to remind all the 501st people on this thread that you're representing our club when you speak on the public boards. Saying recasting is great and bashing people who say otherwise is pretty negative, and doesn't bring credit to this hobby of ours. I know if I were new and saw this, I'd probably not want to join your little "club".

My belated congrats - not sure how I missed this thread!

Better than how mine looked when I started! Some recommendations though: 1) Add a strap from your chest to your back plate. 2) Add or tighten the crotch strap - your slipping in back. 3) You'll need different gloves eventually, as you shouldn't have that strap. Nomex flight gloves are $24, or rubber ones will do. And adjust the shoulder bells as mentioned. Personal nit pick: I have to say I hate the current FX thighs and would recommend you move to RT at some point if possible. This is aesthetic really - I hate that much black showing in back. I'd also like to point out that tweaking is very normal. IIRC it took me three or four sessions/troops to get mine dialed in. Heck, my TK is still getting adjusted bit by bit :-p

To clarify, I think the TE2 will be durable *over time*. It is not as durable to abuse or violence as ABS. So it's more a matter of what you do in your kit than how long you have it, methinks. At least, that's been my experience so far...

Don't know about AP, but TE2 certainly has the "lines of illusion". ABS will eventually yellow. We just had a guy return after an absence and it's pretty obvious, so if you'll have this for years as a TK painting isn't that much of an issue perhaps. ABS will take more abuse than HIPS will. I was willing to play a few downs of football in ABS armor, sure wouldn't in HIPS. OTOH, HIPS feels lighter and more comfortable to me after a long troop, and reinforcing stress areas from the inside is easy. There are some small detail differences between AP & TE2 as well such as on the forearms. I think in the end it's mostly a personal preference.

I do actually but am sans camera (wife took it to China). I can get pix on Saturday unless one of my garrison mates comes over during the week to take pix (will provide free beer!).

No worries man. In the early morning hours I consider coffee a drug delivery vehicle - anything will do - and my local barrista is my dealer. I see you're in a place where you can actually view that yellow thing that sometimes appears in the sky, and heat doesn't come from the vents in your floor. I suppose if our highs for the day ever cracked 60 degrees it might be warm enough for an iced coffee where I am too.

Yeah, it depends. I'm 6'0" and 185lbs or so and actually had to cut away material on my TE2 - 1/2" per side IIRC.

All set!

Done! Well done Chris

Any ANH armor should fit you fine, e.g. AP or TE2. TM is a little larger and the exchange rate can kill you from the US. The AP comes in ABS and requires no painting. TE2 comes in HIPS and requires painting.

Exactly!!!

Here is the deal: 501st Policy As stated the 501st cannot enact a policy on recasting. Thus, we (FISD Staff) cannot ban someone because they are recasting, nor can we prohibit the sale of recasted items. There is no discussion about this. If you don't like it, you must talk to your GCO to get a change through LC, or else run for an LC post yourself. End of line, debate over. FISD Policy We as FISD staff do have a responsibility to ensure people are educated and that all information is upfront. This means we are well within our authority to point out and highlight any recasters, and we can also enforce a policy that in a for sale thread people have to indicate the origins of their item. This something we should and will be doing, and if sellers don't like being called out then they are free not to sell their goods here. End of line, debate over. Who's a recaster? Anyone who doesn't create their own molds from scratch. TM and RT and the only open sellers who can claim this. FX can too, but since he doesn't sell direct you'd need to ensure you're getting an "original" from a valid reseller and not your garrison mate who's recasted FX, or some random guy on Ebay. It can be argued that GINO and TE2 are "legitimate" recasters as they actually negotiated "rights" to molds, whether by in kind bargain or straight monetary compensation. They are the only ones I know of in this fuzzy zone who are "protected" from being recast and from any accusations of being recasters because of how they got where they are. AP is also an edge case in that the source of his molds isn't making armor anymore, and to be honest I'm not 100% how sanctioned the transaction was. Also, he's changed parts enough that it may not be considered the same anyway. This would be an interesting conversation. Everyone that’s current selling is recasting, pure and simple. FON hit it on the head, really. Is recasting moral? Personally I believe it's stealing when we use this word in the proper context. Let's look at clones for example: there are no actual kits out there made to be copied from, so each maker's molds are hand carved. They put in a ton of time and talent making them. There is no question - none - that recasting these people's art is a bad thing. You can get on whatever high horse you want and decry us all as "recasters" or supporting such since "LFL owns all rights", but this is really just an excuse for people to steal others' art and justify their crimes, and their preference over getting armor as cheap as they can, regardless of source. Let's be honest It's also worth coming to terms in saying that people will defend sellers where they have an emotional connection. When C6 took his items off the market, people felt more OK about using a recast item becase there just wasn't anything comparable, and his stuff was unobtainable. Now that we have Java and C6 making EPII buckets, it's considered bad again. CAP is a weird situation because when he did it TE armor was very expensive and hard to get, so like the C6 example above most turned a blind eye. With TE2 being on the scene, the problem increases mostly due to the circumstances from which TE2 emerged (legit transfer) and also that he's extremely liked and respected by everyone. I think the person in the best position to complain and condemn TE and CAP is TE2 himself. The rest of us have all drawn our POV based on our personal relationships with the individuals, and it seems it's those relationships which dictate which side of the argument we take. That said, I am confidant that if this were about some other topic - like the clones I mentioned - there would be far, far less froom for argument. Next steps I'm unlocking this thread. If you would like to talk about the CAP situation specifically, you are free to comment. If you want to talk about recasting in general, let's start another topic. If people continue to abuse each other, your posts will be edited or deleted and you could be suspended. There is a way to talk about this without making personal insults. Lastly… C-E is a non 501st forum. As such it can have an extremely powerful anti-recast policy and enforce it. Same with RPF, PropDen, etc. Again, being a 501st forum we have to abide by 501st rules. If all you care about it cheap armor, then you'll probably go the recast route. If you care about helping ensure we have a healthy prop making ecosystem from which we can enjoy this hobby, you'll probably won't.

It's more than a TE2. It's a TE2 that Mike A. was kind enough to convert from an ANH Stunt to an ESB. It involved removing all the paint, filling in the cap, adjusting it some, repaint - I know I'm missing some things but it was a bit of work! Will try to get better pix this week - sorry it's crappy but I was in a haste. I have to say it's pretty sublime in person and I like it even better than the ANH Stunt.

There are a lot of legal reasons why we're a club that does charitable events vs. a non-profit. This comes up every year in the 501st, and each time it fails. There are few benefits to the club by going non-profit, and you'd have to also ensure that this non-profit is global, what each of the local laws are. Are we US based? Out of the Netherlands? Whose laws apply? And it also opens us up to lawsuits. Anyone can now sue us. Say someone bumped into someone at the mall and they fell down. The 501st could be found culpable and liable, and be sued. It goes downhill from there. There are several lawyers in our club and they all recommend against it AFAIK.

I'm locking this thread for now. It *may* open up again later today. Will post more once I have time to write a thought out reply, and consult with Terrell.