TK - Stormtrooper: Tales From the Galaxy's Edge: Last Call - First Order Lt. Gauge CRL Development Thread

[Chemi[Staff]]

According to the reference images,, I think the front black lines of the Pauldron should be a little more towards the center....Something like this:

 

 

 

Otherwise, nice work ,Justin.

[Sly11[Admin]]

Weathering for EI is an easy addition. That images does look to be lightly weathered and the lived in look adds to the realism for the costume.

[Nairy[Staff]]

4 hours ago, Chemi said:

According to the reference images,, I think the front black lines of the Pauldron should be a little more towards the center....Something like this:

 

 

 

Otherwise, nice work ,Justin.

I think maybe the same effect could be achieved with a bit less work if the black gap was just a little wider, what do you think? 

[TheRascalKing[TK]]

Some reference shows it wider, some narrower - I went wider. I did actually trim every single panel to increase the gaps and help with that angle during my rebuild, but could only do so much before the glue lines became visible in the black space, and it looked awful. So the pauldron is not changing. We're in too deep.

 

Maybe in a future V2 or something, but I already disassembled it once and it can't happen again. The panels are way too solidly glued on now and removing them would destroy the leather underneath. It simply can't be done without starting over, which I am not going to do. So while I appreciate the opinions on that specific topic - move along, move along.

 

I'll add some weathering to match the reference after the base TFA is approved first. Just wanted to provide an update so the CRL work can be scheduled within reason. No promises, but it shouldn't take more than a few weeks to finish the ab boxes and belt, then take photos.

Edited September 12, 2023 by TheRascalKing

[Chemi[Staff]]

For me, the differences in the Pauldron, compared to the reference images, are too obvious.... I don't know what the rest of the staff thinks, but for me, this is not valid.... It's just my opinion.

[Sly11[Admin]]

Look I agree that the pauldron parts don't match the references as tightly as we may like, but I think as Justin mentioned, we can look to update this at a later date.

If we add dimensions, that makes it difficult for GML's and members alike, we don't measure distances on a basic level as we don't handle the approvals, we just build the CRL.

Will some complain, yep some always do! but for higher levels, that's where we can be more picky and make more stipulations. Not every CRL model is Centurion level, although it is desirable, this is a partly new to legion costume. What we can't control is any given GML saying no that pauldron isn't right compared to references, and trust me plenty of GML's out there do use reference images to do exactly that.

 

I would suggest, for EI or centurion we get down to closer referencing of subject matter, and make the pauldron part of that.

There are plenty of costumes getting around legion that look far from the picture, in general we are pretty darn good, so we cant make this up in higher levels.

 

Purely my opinion and as always, happy to be wrong

[Chemi[Staff]]

I'm sorry, but I disagree. The differences are too obvious even for basic (as a GML, I would ask to correct it). 

 

[Nairy[Staff]]

My 2 cents:

We are very close with this and for the gap there to halt the process I think would be a shame, especially since it could be remade in the future as we get more people to build these with this CRL in place, everything is a flow as we see when we correct CRLs and images every now and then - or add higher levels of approval.

Not accepting someone at basic with a pauldron looking like this with everything else considered would harsh in my opinion, but that is GML business I guess!

 

I think we should move along! 

[Chemi[Staff]]

hace 1 hora, Nairy dijo:

 

Not accepting someone at basic with a pauldron looking like this with everything else considered would harsh in my opinion, but that is GML business I guess!

 

Exactly

[Nairy[Staff]]

48 minutes ago, Chemi said:

 

Exactly

What I mean is, is our work here on FISD and the work of GML's that tightly intertwined in the creation of a CRL, to the point where the creation of said CRL might be stopped because of the GML's? Or do we still have separation of concern? Who has the final say in CRL creation is what I guess I'm asking? 

[TKSpartan[Staff]]

14 minutes ago, Nairy said:

What I mean is, is our work here on FISD and the work of GML's that tightly intertwined in the creation of a CRL, to the point where the creation of said CRL might be stopped because of the GML's? Or do we still have separation of concern? Who has the final say in CRL creation is what I guess I'm asking? 

 

This is what the Legion Site says

 

Who publishes New CRLS?
The Legion Membership Officer (LMO). The LMO has the final say on what goes into a published CRL.

 

You can read the complete text here

https://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:CRLGuide

 

 

[Sly11[Admin]]

16 hours ago, TKSpartan said:

 

This is what the Legion Site says

 

Who publishes New CRLS?
The Legion Membership Officer (LMO). The LMO has the final say on what goes into a published CRL.

 

You can read the complete text here

https://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:CRLGuide

 

 

This is correct, but we build them, i submit them to the LMO team who all go through it and if they want changes made, that then comes back to me to discuss with the member building the costume.

The LMO may also discuss it further with the member.

If they say no, then that's where it stops until the member makes costume corrections and in turn we update the CRL appropriately.

Finally it is Green lit, appears in our CRL list and members can start building to it.

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Of course with any CRL feedback may be given by staff or members prior to submitting to the LMO's, this is for transperancy.

 

I've not had a full look at the text, just a glance just this minute and appears a few items which are different from other FOTK CRL's, personally I think all base CRL's should be consistent, we already have issues with game CRL's which aren't consistent and cause issues.

 

One in particular is the abdomen side seam, this has been discussed previously with the other FOTK CRL's. I will have to go into the rest in more detail at a later stage.

[TheRascalKing[TK]]

On 9/13/2023 at 1:05 AM, gmrhodes13 said:

Of course with any CRL feedback may be given by staff or members prior to submitting to the LMO's, this is for transperancy.

 

I've not had a full look at the text, just a glance just this minute and appears a few items which are different from other FOTK CRL's, personally I think all base CRL's should be consistent, we already have issues with game CRL's which aren't consistent and cause issues.

 

One in particular is the abdomen side seam, this has been discussed previously with the other FOTK CRL's. I will have to go into the rest in more detail at a later stage.

 

Any changes to the base TFA CRL were noted in my original post with items that are added in green and items that are removed being struck through. 

 

If the LMO has any concerns with the items I've struck through, I encourage someone to submit reference material from the game that clearly shows the detail in question. Otherwise, I have removed them because they are either not present or are unable to be verified with reference to my knowledge. I added back the ab sides being seamless - while I disagree with this being at the Basic level, I won't hold up the CRL to fight for it.

Edited September 16, 2023 by TheRascalKing

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

I've only glanced the proposed CRL, there may be some items/details added to the FOTK CRL's to be more inclusive so it would be best to try be consistent across each CRL.

 

I just can't make out any seams on the sides, with this character or other TK's in the game

 

But having a deeper look this morning there are a few items which do differ, although troopers are based on TFA armor/helmet they appear to have a TLJ detonator, all black endcap 

 

I also noticed you crossed out working lights, there's definitely a hengstler light, although it is green which is a little weird

 

But no magazine light   Some other details, white rear sight (added these details as there may be some options added to FOTK CRL's)   No D ring    Silver D ring mount   Could possibly add an option for barrel lights, red or blue, (kill or stun)   F-11D Blaster Blaster may be scratch-built, or a modified commercial toy Stormtrooper blaster. Blaster may have a sling attached. Details to be painted black, white and silver per reference photos.   OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Rear sight is painted black. white D ring mount painted silver, if D ring is present it should be rectangular in shape and painted black No D ring present D ring mount is silver 3D printed blasters can not contain visible print lines and must be sanded smooth for a more realistic appearance. OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable): Working lights on Hengstler and working front torch are is required. Front handle must be movable.

I see you can select an F-11 heavy blaster but not sure if Lieutenant Gauge can as I don't own the game.

F-11ABA heavy blaster cannon

 

Comes with a sheild as well

 

 

And the Jet trooper Tri-barrel Launcher

And green lights again, must be the norm for the game

 

Still more to look at but I've spent far too much time on this today.

[Sly11[Admin]]

Ooh I actually love the green lights on the side of the blaster, that's kind cool and a great point of difference for the CRL.

Is he dual weilding!!

[Sly11[Admin]]

Also just looking through the CRL early draft in this thread, I don't see a reason why the centurion level items should be struck out, considering this character is based off the TFA FOTK, things like palm stitching and the way boxes seams are not filled, and other items should absolutely remain.

It just doesn't make sense not to have them included as you are building this in a realistic fashion, not in a game render fashion.

These are also optional levels so there is no pressure for anyone to build to that level , but if they have a centurion level TFA TK, then they have some options to make a Pauldron and secondary helmet plus any other differences, to have a another costume from the base and also hit centurion with that.

 

We will definitely have a detailed look at this and flesh out the wiki origin doc before submitting to the LMO team.

 

The build is coming along nicely Justin, almost there.

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

On 9/17/2023 at 8:53 AM, Sly11 said:

Ooh I actually love the green lights on the side of the blaster, that's kind cool and a great point of difference for the CRL.

Is he dual weilding!!

 

The TK did carry two firearms, not sure about Lieutenant Guage, two F11's sometimes a mix

 

Off topic but some nice pics of the helmet internals

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheRascalKing[TK]]

17 hours ago, gmrhodes13 said:

I've only glanced the proposed CRL, there may be some items/details added to the FOTK CRL's to be more inclusive so it would be best to try be consistent across each CRL.

 

I just can't make out any seams on the sides, with this character or other TK's in the game

 

But having a deeper look this morning there are a few items which do differ, although troopers are based on TFA armor/helmet they appear to have a TLJ detonator, all black endcap 

 

I agree with your observations - the ab sides are seamless, but that's never been been the point of my argument. Rather, that the requirement for them to be seamless should be a L2 or higher point of scrutiny. Again, I won't hold up the CRL if leadership is steadfast in their belief that this is important enough to keep it as a blocker at Basic. I also agree with the TD observation and as such, the phrase "A white stripe is present around the end of the cylinder that extends slightly onto the circular surface." has been struck from the TD section in proposed CRL in the OP. All black TLJ-style end cap it is.

 

 

17 hours ago, gmrhodes13 said:

I also noticed you crossed out working lights, there's definitely a hengstler light, although it is green which is a little weird

Could possibly add an option for barrel lights, red or blue, (kill or stun) F-11D Blaster Blaster may be scratch-built, or a modified commercial toy Stormtrooper blaster. Blaster may have a sling attached. Details to be painted black, white and silver per reference photos.   OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Rear sight is painted black. white D ring mount painted silver, if D ring is present it should be rectangular in shape and painted black No D ring present D ring mount is silver 3D printed blasters can not contain visible print lines and must be sanded smooth for a more realistic appearance. OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable): Working lights on Hengstler and working front torch are is required. Front handle must be movable.

I see you can select an F-11 heavy blaster but not sure if Lieutenant Gauge can as I don't own the game.

F-11ABA heavy blaster cannon

Still more to look at but I've spent far too much time on this today.

 

As to the blaster, I agree those observations can probably be assumed based on the blasters in use by other characters, but it would be difficult to provide reference that this is the case for Lt. Gauge specifically, as much of the reference shared is for the playable character models, not his. I never saw lights on his blaster, so I don't see the need to require them. Gauge is only ever seen carrying a single F11-D.

 

16 hours ago, Sly11 said:

Ooh I actually love the green lights on the side of the blaster, that's kind cool and a great point of difference for the CRL.

Is he dual weilding!!

 

The reference shared is of the playable game character, not Gauge, so not technically relevant. 

 

16 hours ago, Sly11 said:

Also just looking through the CRL early draft in this thread, I don't see a reason why the centurion level items should be struck out, considering this character is based off the TFA FOTK, things like palm stitching and the way boxes seams are not filled, and other items should absolutely remain.

It just doesn't make sense not to have them included as you are building this in a realistic fashion, not in a game render fashion.

These are also optional levels so there is no pressure for anyone to build to that level , but if they have a centurion level TFA TK, then they have some options to make a Pauldron and secondary helmet plus any other differences, to have a another costume from the base and also hit centurion with that.

 

We will definitely have a detailed look at this and flesh out the wiki origin doc before submitting to the LMO team.

 

The build is coming along nicely Justin, almost there.

 

There isn't a question of "realistic" or "game render" version. There is only one version of this character, and I am using reference from the game to recreate it. If a detail is unable to be verified using game assets, it shouldn't be included. There is no reason to hold people to an artificially high standard that we are unable to prove using reference. It's pretty simple. If I struck something, provide reference from the game that proves me wrong. Again, there is no reason to make this more complicated than it needs to be.

 

I'll give you that upon review, it does appear that the glove palm stitching is a contrasting color and has been updated in the OP. If you disagree with other points, please provide reference as below.

 

 

 

16 hours ago, gmrhodes13 said:

The TK did carry two firearms, not sure about Lieutenant Guage, two F11's sometimes a mix

 

Off topic but some nice pics of the helmet internals

 

Plenty of cool helmet internal pics over here, but yes - let's keep this on topic. While we need to be thorough in our research, I've provided some pretty excellent, full 360* reference that is pretty clear. There were some good observations that have led to change. And there has been repetition of opinions that have not brought value to the discussion. I'd hate for excessive scrutiny by staff to be viewed as personal attacks or as attempts to derail or hinder the creation of this CRL. It's not like FISD gets new CRLs as often as other Detachments, and most others are significantly more "pro-CRL creation". Let's ensure feedback stays constructive and is driving towards the successful completion of the CRL.

 

My intent is to make the files and templates for the costume add-on pieces available for free to the FISD after approval in case anyone else wants to make this costume, but also - I'm moving houses soon and my son is due at the end of November. If this isn't completed timely, it's likely that it simply won't be. Let's get any other constructive CRL feedback addressed so I can take final photos, and get this done.

Edited September 17, 2023 by TheRascalKing

[Sly11[Admin]]

Justin, as you are building to this CRL, it is not up to us to provide references although we do plenty of research  for every CRL to assist. As has been mentioned, there is a base CRL for  TFA FOTK, as this game version looks to basically be the same, the base CRL plus some differences the base CRL  should be adhered to. In real world we know those things exist and you are building a real world costume based from a game which is quite obvious they design from the actual costume, plus embellishments created for the character.

It is up to you to provide references that these things do not exist.

This is the basic principle of our CRL's and yes the 501st high standards compared to other costuming clubs. Not created by me or any of the current staff, but simple rules that the detachment has continued to follow over the last 15 years.

Why should we want to settle for less, when these are things most of the membership are very very proud of.

[TheRascalKing[TK]]

I have provided plenty of reference material, including full 360* views of the costume. CRLs have been written and approved off of far less.

 

I have written a CRL that I believe captures the details seen in the reference material. I cannot provide reference of something that does not exist.

 

While the TFA FOTK CRL has helped take a ton of work out of the creation of this NEW, separate CRL, the fact remains that it is a new, separate CRL.

 

And if something is not able to be visually confirmed via reference material, I will not be including it in my CRL. Some things I can bend on, but I refuse to require someone else to meet an unfair standard.

 

If the CRL is unable to be approved by Detachment Staff as is or with minor additional tweaks confirmed via actual reference (as with the TD end cap) and is unable to move forward, I will work with the LMO office directly or I will withdraw it from consideration. Thank you.

Edited September 18, 2023 by TheRascalKing

[Hask[IPM]]

5 hours ago, TheRascalKing said:

I have provided plenty of reference material, including full 360* views of the costume. CRLs have been written and approved off of far less.

 

I have written a CRL that I believe captures the details seen in the reference material. I cannot provide reference of something that does not exist.

 

While the TFA FOTK CRL has helped take a ton of work out of the creation of this NEW, separate CRL, the fact remains that it is a new, separate CRL.

 

And if something is not able to be visually confirmed via reference material, I will not be including it in my CRL. Some things I can bend on, but I refuse to require someone else to meet an unfair standard.

 

If the CRL is unable to be approved by Detachment Staff as is or with minor additional tweaks confirmed via actual reference (as with the TD end cap) and is unable to move forward, I will work with the LMO office directly or I will remove it from consideration. Thank you.

And the LMO will advise you to work with the detachment not try and circumnavigate because you dont agree with what they are saying.

[starsaber25[Admin]]

Hey all.  Just wanting to put this out here that the COGs are watching.  Thank you.

[starsaber25[Admin]]

On 9/12/2023 at 6:58 AM, Chemi said:

I'm sorry, but I disagree. The differences are too obvious even for basic (as a GML, I would ask to correct it). 

 

 

This is the one thing I wanted to comment on with my GML hat.  I completely agree with Chemi here.  We have some detachments in the legion who are very strict with their CRLs.  Believe it or not the FISD is actually not one of them.  I feel that the pauldron should look like the video game references from the start.  Us GMLs will approve this based on the wording and the pictures.  If people start building them then we will have a handful of these characters in the legion approved with a pauldron that looks like the one made at this point.  The black lines should be moved more towards the center to be more in line with the reference photos shown. 

 

 

[TheRascalKing[TK]]

Please consider this CRL request withdrawn for now, thank you.

Edited September 18, 2023 by TheRascalKing