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Daetrin

Official FO TK Ideas Thread

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OK peeps - I heard from some troopers that FISD seems to think FO TK's are 2nd class citizens or something. I was surprised to see the question come up on the election Q&A, quite honestly, especially given the big investment this detachment has been making the past several months on FOTKs.  For example:

 

TFA CRL - added L2/L3 so now these people can get L2/L3 as well.

TLJ CRL - done!  Including L2/L3 and we now have TLJ Centurions

TLJ-E CRL - done!  Like the TLJ TK, we are now seeing applicants approved at all levels

TLJ Phasma - text is done!  Just waiting on full photos (Misty is working on this)

 

10th Anniversary patch - split with OT & FO TK on it to honor both troopers

Even back in Celebration, the poster had both FO & OT on it.

We did an FO TK FISD coin as well.

 

Given all this - I'm trying to understand where the sentiment that FO TKs are not somehow first class citizens is coming from.  Actually there is a whole queue of OT TK stuff that has been sitting so we can focus on FO TK.

 

Questions?  Concerns?  Ideas?  Sound off and let's here them! :)

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I have been working on and off on a version of the FISD logo with a FOTK, we could do a merch run with that at some point?

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A couple of things I've encountered in conversations, this is before being taken on staff, head is on the chopping block ;) 

 

Negatives:

 

Some have mentioned that there is no reference to FOTK's on the FISD racing shirt, perhaps one of the epaulettes could have the imperial cog replaced with a fist order logo, we did a similar change with our recent garrison racing shirt runs and had positive feedback. Also there could be a replacement of one of the shirt's side cogs with the first order. After all the only other FOTK reference racing shirt available (by private FB group) has no association with FISD or the 501st Legion, hence why many never bothered acquiring one.

 

I know some FISD members did not take to the idea of using a FOTK helmet as a replacement of the OT helmet in the FISD patch, even though it was only to be a very limited one off run. Similar response to a half/half helmeted patch until the recent anniversary patch was used.

 

Lots of grumblings earlier on that if you wanted any FOTK info you had to join the FOTK private build group, some there seemed to have an issue with FISD, I believe some even tried to distance FOTK's from FISD group photos, this is hearsay and I am only going on what I was told, don't shoot the messenger.

 

Note, I have noticed that a lot of the grumblings seem to come off forum, many don't or only occasionally visit FISD.

 

Time it took to get TFA L2 and L3 added to the CRL's.

 

Phasma L2 and L3 still waiting.

 

Little build/reference info on FISD for Phasma, most being shared on FB.

 

 

Postives:

FO build threads

FO references

Quick pace of research and approval of TLJ and TLJ-E CRL's

Addition of L2 and L3 for TLJ and TLJ-E

FISD name badge with FOTK helmet.

Recent OT/FO FISD anniversary patch.

 

Additional:

I recently submitted some more OT/FO patch designs for staff discussion and of course they would be dependant on what course FISD is on in a few weeks time ;) 

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Thanks Glen.  A lot of that is from years ago, on other DLs.

 

Build threads being private

>> I've made them all public.

 

FOTK FISD patch

>> The issue with the FOTK helmet on the patch was only pushed due to the helmet not looking right.  Did we ever get that full fixed?  It would be easy to get that finalized & done.

 

Time it took to get TFA L2 and L3 added to the CRL's.

>> Once I got pictures I cranked them out in record time

 

Phasma

>> See above.  I got the Legion's Phasmas involved to add that in.  TLJ is just waiting on photos (not much I can do there)

 

Little build/reference info on FISD for Phasma, most being shared on FB.

>> That's on those members.  I've created the space, we're asking people to put that stuff here.  They just need to do it.

 

I can understand the unhappiness a few years ago (I was unhappy to), but I've done by best to fix all that.  What else can be changed to help those FO TKs return?

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7 hours ago, Daetrin said:

FOTK FISD patch

>> The issue with the FOTK helmet on the patch was only pushed due to the helmet not looking right.  Did we ever get that full fixed?  It would be easy to get that finalized & done.

A name tag run went ahead (in know as I received one ;) ) then nothing else progressed due to the negative feedback.

 

7 hours ago, Daetrin said:

Phasma

>> See above.  I got the Legion's Phasmas involved to add that in.  TLJ is just waiting on photos (not much I can do there)

 

Little build/reference info on FISD for Phasma, most being shared on FB.

>> That's on those members.  I've created the space, we're asking people to put that stuff here.  They just need to do it.

Exactly, those members are not posting their builds here, not sure what can be done, I have had two local recruits asking for Phasma reference and builds, I've sent them to FISD only to receive a reply "but there's not much there" then I have to mention there is a FB group they could try to find.

 

7 hours ago, Daetrin said:

I can understand the unhappiness a few years ago (I was unhappy to), but I've done by best to fix all that.  What else can be changed to help those FO TKs return?

I think the private FB group had a lot to do with that, many hanging on to the unhappiness and not willing to change and passing on that negativity to next gen of builders.

 

I do remember another big issue, most wanted the prefix to be FN and were not to happy when it was given TK.

 

 

7 hours ago, Daetrin said:

I can understand the unhappiness a few years ago (I was unhappy to), but I've done by best to fix all that.  What else can be changed to help those FO TKs return?

I really don't know, from my experience seems some FOTK's think they are above others, I don't get that but then I do have a few other costumes I wear, most of the time I kit up in OT as it's easier to get in when there are no helpers and the public still love an OT TK.

 

Do something to offend one and a lot jump on board, hell I've copped my fair share of hate mail, or should I say back stabbing, you just can't change how some people think.

 

Personally as I've said a lot of people are motivated by merchandise, the addition of some FO love to the FISD racing shirts and more joint patches may help, some will just not change how they feel towards FISD.

 

There are more signing up on the FISD forums, we are seeing a lot more TFA and TLJ build threads now and L2 and L3 applications, so new folk aren't being pre tarnished as much as they had been in the past, but there is more than one FB group now ;) it seems like things are already turning, who knows the issues may be on the mend now.

 

I know a lot like merch

 

01%7BF9740DB5-196C-43A1-AB08-F0F42241B11

 

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Re: merch. The FISD webstore has ongoing tshirt and hoodies with the classic logo and iirc the old 'stepping out' logo. It'd be a small gesture, but if shirts with the FO lid on the FISD logo were added( and what the heck..go all out and have some with ESB/ROTJ/Rebels lids on too) it might go a long way to making the non ANH TKs feel just as part of the team....

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

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11 minutes ago, Colin1138 said:

Re: merch. The FISD webstore has ongoing tshirt and hoodies with the classic logo and iirc the old 'stepping out' logo. It'd be a small gesture, but if shirts with the FO lid on the FISD logo were added( and what the heck..go all out and have some with ESB/ROTJ/Rebels lids on too) it might go a long way to making the non ANH TKs feel just as part of the team....

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk
 

I had an idea of doing a patch series that wasn’t the logobut was the same basic design, but with each of the different costumes of FISD (ANH, ESB, HWT, TFA FOTK, etcetera).

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On 2/11/2018 at 12:26 AM, Harbinger said:

I have been working on and off on a version of the FISD logo with a FOTK, we could do a merch run with that at some point?

I have a version Ready, but never got final approval. PM incoming.

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I think that there is generally less of a community on here for the First Order.  Noticeably it took 3 weeks to get FN level 2 clearance (2 days for my TK), which suggests something of a lack of resource assigned to these costumes?

 

I think recognising the FN prefix and maybe changing the name to the FOSD might help ;)   Just kidding, put the pitchforks away!:D

 

Edited by zebedee
typo

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On 2/11/2018 at 9:09 AM, Daetrin said:

Thanks Glen.  A lot of that is from years ago, on other DLs.

 

Build threads being private

>> I've made them all public.

 

FOTK FISD patch

>> The issue with the FOTK helmet on the patch was only pushed due to the helmet not looking right.  Did we ever get that full fixed?  It would be easy to get that finalized & done.

 

Time it took to get TFA L2 and L3 added to the CRL's.

>> Once I got pictures I cranked them out in record time

 

Phasma

>> See above.  I got the Legion's Phasmas involved to add that in.  TLJ is just waiting on photos (not much I can do there)

 

Little build/reference info on FISD for Phasma, most being shared on FB.

>> That's on those members.  I've created the space, we're asking people to put that stuff here.  They just need to do it.

 

I can understand the unhappiness a few years ago (I was unhappy to), but I've done by best to fix all that.  What else can be changed to help those FO TKs return?

Paul, the helmet was fixed, but I think it shouldn’t be limited to 200, all should have access to the patch, and as Harbinger said we can make every FISD costume variation, TKC, Femtrooper, etc

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Sorry - please remind me where the limited to 200 comes from?

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15 minutes ago, Daetrin said:

Sorry - please remind me where the limited to 200 comes from?

You stated that when I came up with the proposal.

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following this. like the idea of adding first order to the racing shirt

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11 minutes ago, v7sg said:

You stated that when I came up with the proposal.

Got it.  Now I remember.  The reason we have to do it on a limited or season run is branding.  The actual FISD logo is the OT TK and that has to always be presented as our official patch that is always available.  Doing an FOTK alternate has to be clear that it's a special, or different in some way as to avoid confusion, hence the changes we asked.

 

The equivalent is if you came up with a Legion patch that was 100% the same but with an FOTK and started selling that & people started wearing that. Even though the Legion logo is of a funky ROTJ trooper which is one of the rarest of TKs, the logo is what it is and there needs to be a clear indicator that the FOTK version is an alternate and not "official".

 

I'm going off of memory, but IIRC on the design submitted we had such a thing, and thus no reason to limit the run.

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On 2/11/2018 at 6:09 AM, Daetrin said:

I can understand the unhappiness a few years ago (I was unhappy to), but I've done by best to fix all that.  What else can be changed to help those FO TKs return?

I won't speak for everyone, but I feel like most of the problem does come from a couple years ago and has gotten much better since in my experience. The insinuations about the ANOVOS project, the openly critical nature toward the costume design, etc  - there was just a lot flying around for a while. Like I said though, I haven't run into that on FISD in quite some time so I at least feel like things are much better.

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18 minutes ago, Daetrin said:

Got it.  Now I remember.  The reason we have to do it on a limited or season run is branding.  The actual FISD logo is the OT TK and that has to always be presented as our official patch that is always available.  Doing an FOTK alternate has to be clear that it's a special, or different in some way as to avoid confusion, hence the changes we asked.

 

The equivalent is if you came up with a Legion patch that was 100% the same but with an FOTK and started selling that & people started wearing that. Even though the Legion logo is of a funky ROTJ trooper which is one of the rarest of TKs, the logo is what it is and there needs to be a clear indicator that the FOTK version is an alternate and not "official".

 

I'm going off of memory, but IIRC on the design submitted we had such a thing, and thus no reason to limit the run.

That is why I was thinking:

- FISD Patch (official, shield w/ ANH logo version), always available

- Red version, FOTK, (red FOTK?) available 'sometimes'

- Special patch runs (round logo, Phasma, ROTJ, etc.) as limited runs

 

Something along those lines.

Edited by Harbinger
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On ‎11‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 6:00 PM, gmrhodes13 said:

Some have mentioned that there is no reference to FOTK's on the FISD racing shirt, perhaps one of the epaulettes could have the imperial cog replaced with a fist order logo, we did a similar change with our recent garrison racing shirt runs and had positive feedback. Also there could be a replacement of one of the shirt's side cogs with the first order. After all the only other FOTK reference racing shirt available (by private FB group) has no association with FISD or the 501st Legion, hence why many never bothered acquiring one.

Just as an example, not trying to re-invent the wheel, just adding some FOTK 5sBG5p1.png

 

w99YTVo.png

 

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Since each shirt is bespoke anyway (e.g. you have a custom name), why not make the left sleeve either OT or FO TK?

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4 minutes ago, Daetrin said:

Since each shirt is bespoke anyway (e.g. you have a custom name), why not make the left sleeve either OT or FO TK?

Weren't able to have an option like this for adding EI or Centurion? DENIED

 

Many own both OT and FO, be nice if we can represent both ;) Just my 2 cents

 

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FYI, you do realize you can simply sew a rocker patch on the shoulder above the unit patch on the left?  This is what I did, anyway.

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6 minutes ago, Daetrin said:

FYI, you do realize you can simply sew a rocker patch on the shoulder above the unit patch on the left?  This is what I did, anyway.

I did that on a squad racing shirt, but to me it looked tacky, an add on, so never added to another shirt.

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14 hours ago, Daetrin said:

Got it.  Now I remember.  The reason we have to do it on a limited or season run is branding.  The actual FISD logo is the OT TK and that has to always be presented as our official patch that is always available.  Doing an FOTK alternate has to be clear that it's a special, or different in some way as to avoid confusion, hence the changes we asked.

 

The equivalent is if you came up with a Legion patch that was 100% the same but with an FOTK and started selling that & people started wearing that. Even though the Legion logo is of a funky ROTJ trooper which is one of the rarest of TKs, the logo is what it is and there needs to be a clear indicator that the FOTK version is an alternate and not "official".

 

I'm going off of memory, but IIRC on the design submitted we had such a thing, and thus no reason to limit the run.

Actually No, it all comes down to the unit leader’s decision, Being a CO and a Merchandising and Branding officer I have spoken with both Lesley and Scott about this. The Only logo that cannot be changed or have a variation is the main 501st Legion Logo, every other logo can have an official Variation. Multiple Garrisons and Detachments have made variations of their logos and all are officially Recognized. Sith Lords Detachment recently (less than 2 years) have made all of their approved characters logos variations official, Pathfinders also. The main logo stands, but members are free to choose which one they’ll use. At the end of the day the important thing is the name of the unit being represented.

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2 hours ago, v7sg said:

Actually No, it all comes down to the unit leader’s decision, Being a CO and a Merchandising and Branding officer I have spoken with both Lesley and Scott about this. The Only logo that cannot be changed or have a variation is the main 501st Legion Logo, every other logo can have an official Variation. Multiple Garrisons and Detachments have made variations of their logos and all are officially Recognized. Sith Lords Detachment recently (less than 2 years) have made all of their approved characters logos variations official, Pathfinders also. The main logo stands, but members are free to choose which one they’ll use. At the end of the day the important thing is the name of the unit being represented.W

Fascinating - this is maybe something new then that I wasn't aware - as I don't remember this being the case initially.  I hope you don't mind me reaching out to Lesley to confirm?  We have an excellent relationship with the LMBO and our designs usually sail through - I'd like not to jeopardize this.

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40 minutes ago, Daetrin said:

Fascinating - this is maybe something new then that I wasn't aware - as I don't remember this being the case initially.  I hope you don't mind me reaching out to Lesley to confirm?  We have an excellent relationship with the LMBO and our designs usually sail through - I'd like not to jeopardize this.

Of course, but I would like to be part of the conversation, so if there is any confusion, it would be clarified it at the moment. 

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Devil's advocate here... 

While I agree with the love for the idea of patches bearing different characters, the logistics have to be considered as well.

 

Currently, there are just about 4,550 OT Era Stormtroopers approved in the Legion.   
Currently, there are just over/about 325 FO Stormtroopers approved in the Legion.

Currently, there are 24 Captain Phasmas approved in the Legion.

Per the rules, the patches must be in-hand before the run can begin.  Most patch makers have a minimum order for patches, and the smaller the run, the more expensive the patch. 

Financially, it is easy to do a patch featuring the OT troopers.  There are a lot of people who MAY buy them, and so the person fronting the run does not wind up taking a year to get the money that they paid for the patches back. 

It isn't difficult to do a patch featuring the FO troopers, as there are enough people out there who may buy them, that the person fronting the run can expect to receive their money back in relatively short order.  Perhaps not as fast as the OT trooper patch, but it should come back relatively quickly.

 

It may prove cost-prohibitive to do a Phasma patch run with only 24 approved members. 

Let's say that the patch maker has a minimum order of 200.  You'll have no issue at all selling the OT patch, probably very little issue selling the FO patch, it may prove difficult to sell the Phasma patches in timely fashion.

I'm not saying that nothing can be done.  I believe that they should be done, but on the back-end, behind the scenes, these are things that have to be considered by the person managing the run.

All of it would be easier, if there were more members here at the Detachment on a regular basis, so that they could show their support for the merchandise proposals.  That would provide the run manager the opportunity to get a good feel for how many should be ordered, and how quickly they are likely to sell them.  Not everyone who manages merchandise runs can afford to sink $1,000 into a patch run with the prospects of taking two years to recoup that money staring them in the face.  In fact, a number of really great ideas and designs for merchandise runs requested to be run by members of the community have withered and died because of the need for them to front the cash, over the years.

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