Armor Molding?

[Ethanim]

Hey,

    Im new here, and I have a couple of questions for you guys before i start making my suit.

 

What is the preferred method of making armor?

 

Im not sure of the terms but Casting or Vaccuum forming? I can sculpt it out of clay im not worried about that but I have seen people do the casting in the mold, and others use vaccuum forming.

   I would buy armor but in the time it would take to get a kit, i can have one almost or completely built by then.

 

So what are the methods you guys use to make your armor? Get me started off on the right foot!

 

Thanks

 

 

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

if you want to be accurate you should not consider sculpting your own armor.  AP has probably the shortest wait time.

it's best to purchase a kit in ABS plastic and then assemble that according to your body size.

 

casting and mold making and making a vac table won't work with the simple types... most people spend at least 3k usd

for making armor, then they have to be legion approved, and that process takes much longer than you might expect.

it's not like you're going to pop out good looking armor with a shop vac and simple table.

 

The Legion is about screen accuracy, not about saving money by "making it yourself"

and the rub is my friend, that it costs much more than you might be factoring in!~

 

http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/11538-the-various-types-of-armor-and-where-to-find-them/

Edited October 18, 2013 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[Ethanim]

hmm ok. So whats with difference between AP and the TM armor?

[bjsavage7[TK]]

If you are a super accurate master-sculptor & do this kind of work all the time, you might have a good opportunity of sculpting & casting your own armor, but if you just plan to make a suit for just yourself, you might want to consider pre-existing options. AP & TM are both very nice makes of armor with relatively short wait time. Read up about them on this forum & do a lot of research before you spend money on any kit.  

[Ethanim]

Ok, thanks. I guess ill buy a kit first then start on my make just to see if i can do it!

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

AP was cast from a suit made for promoting the film.  TM was sculpted by the maker himself after studying the design for several years.

if you plan on getting into the armor making business, you should consider how many other people are actually making armor that was

produced from suits seen on screen in the film.  if you purchase a kit, and then make a design based upon that. then that is also not

allowed by the legion.  that's called "recasting"  if you make armor molds you have to show your work, or the Legion won't approve you.

 

making armor is not cheaper than buying a kit already formed.

[iconoclasta_88[TK]]

Hey bro. Welcome!

 

Just wanted to say some stuff that has not been said.

 

The fact that the legion needs to approve a make of armor for you to join or that they won't approve recasting, that is not true!

 

If you get to build a fairly accurate looking armor that you can troop in made of papier mâché, abs or metal, is up to you and you will be approved.

 

You don't need to buy from any specific vendor or maker to join. You can make your own mould anytime and make armor for your own or for selling. The legion has no say or stand on that. That is a fact.

 

The legion is not just about getting the most accurate armor possible nor is it about saving money. It is about getting professional looking costumes representing the bad guys on the saga, having fun, trooping, making charitable work and over all, celebrating SW.

 

In the other hand, yes, it is frown upon the community, specially among the detachments to recast or not be super accurate. Some members will even get very aggressive over the subjects of recasting. That is not what I or anyone here would recommend. Recasting is not good. But the legion has no official saying or stand on that.

 

Having said that, if you want to build your own moulds and try to make your own armor, and you have the skills, time and resources, go on!!

 

If you rather buy a kit, there are more than a few options that will give you a great starting point to build an armor.

 

If you decide to get a kit? Or if you decide to make your own armor, then two different discussions and processes will need to be started.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Saludos.

Juan

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

good points Juan!

 

for a beginner it's important to point out that 90% of the members of the legion who wear the TK the armor was purchased and assembled.

there is a slight myth that we all made our own molds and vac formed our own armor.  if this were the case people would be selling molds.

 

my posts on this subject are due to the desire on my part to not let a beginner make the mistake of thinking that they can save money or

time by making their own suit.  this is where fibreglass suits come into play, and are just a gimmick.

 

The 501st legion LMO's and GML's are pushing for accuracy to up the standards in the legion on a worldwide basis.

in the past we had armors that could be approved at the base level only.

 

now that the legion has matured, we have added to the base level of acceptance 2 other levels of build accuracy.

this along with the deprecation of the FX helmet, and the swap out of the AM backplate and chestplate shows us

as members of the TK legion that our standards have been raised.

 

so on the one hand you could make your own armor, and it MIGHT be accepted at the base level, but most GML's

are going in the direction of more accuracy. 

 

The statement that the legion has no official stance on recasting is there for legal reasons, not for costuming standards.

so there is a bit of a contradiction.  we officially say nothing about recasting, but when the rubber meets the road

the standards are what keeps this "The best Star Wars" costuming club in the world.  some costume groups allow for

low standards, yet the 501st legion is getting to the point of extreme accuracy, and making our own molds and casting our

own suits does not cover that aspect.

 

for members of the legion, especially new members, I feel it's best to help people to understand how complex forming armor is, and how costly

and time consuming the process is.  by purchasing a kit from the known vettet members on this forum you'll be saving money by

going the route of patience and research!

 

personally I don't think there are paper mache' or pepakura armor that has been 501st approved?  I'd love to see that application?

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

The fact that the legion needs to approve a make of armor for you to join or that they won't approve recasting, that is not true!

 

If you get to build a fairly accurate looking armor that you can troop in made of papier mâché, abs or metal, is up to you and you will be approved.

 

You don't need to buy from any specific vendor or maker to join. You can make your own mould anytime and make armor for your own or for selling. The legion has no say or stand on that. That is a fact.

 

The legion is not just about getting the most accurate armor possible nor is it about saving money. It is about getting professional looking costumes representing the bad guys on the saga, having fun, trooping, making charitable work and over all, celebrating SW.

 

In the other hand, yes, it is frown upon the community, specially among the detachments to recast or not be super accurate. Some members will even get very aggressive over the subjects of recasting. That is not what I or anyone here would recommend. Recasting is not good. But the legion has no official saying or stand on that.

 

Having said that, if you want to build your own moulds and try to make your own armor, and you have the skills, time and resources, go on!!

 

 

 

Juan,

 

there are several situations where armor makers have tried to be vetted members on the FISD and sell their work.  most have been not allowed to

make and sell armor seen as vetted and approved by the FISD.  The FISD is the HOME of the TK and as such helps to manage the information

that newcomers to the hobby should pay attention to.

 

I don't believe that it's proper to tell a newcomer that they can make their own armor, and then sell other people armor from that mold.

I personally don't want to see armor makers on the FISD look like an EBAY auction house where we sell paper armor.

when you look at ebay as an example we DO have a STANCE on recasting, and our official opinion is not to purchase armor

created on EBAY.

 

There are also makers who have opened brick and mortar stores selling their recast armor

(and it's really bad looking when you know what to look for)

 

we tell people to avoid Ebay and Recasters because of the standards we have established.

 

We have created an official response to recasting by doing 2 things:

 

1) The FISD created a list of vetted members who are approved to make and sell armor.

2) The FISD created a list of makers to avoid.

 

we have changed quite a bit in the last 3 years, and it shows!

 

we have people making 3d scans, 3d printing, sculpting and hours of work and thousands of dollars in an attempt to get into the armor

making business.  when those armors are complete, they most likely will be rejected by STAFF here...

why?  to protect beginners from making a costly mistake and lowering the standards.

 

 

just ask the Deployment officer, or the FISD detachment founder how much has changed in the approval process.

Edited October 19, 2013 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[Locitus[Admin]]

FISD is pretty firmly against recasting, but the legion itself takes no position in the issue. There are many costumes that wouldn't exist today if people hadn't recast others. Like the TIE pilots. There is to my knowledge no "legit" TK faceplate that has been used for TIE pilots.

[walt[501st]]

It is very hard to make your own molds and vacuform them!!!!...and costly....heck i could have got the new efx armor and a few tm,s to hand out for all i hsve invested.....and its kids size:-)

[Rich330[TK]]

 There is to my knowledge no "legit" TK faceplate that has been used for TIE pilots.

 

AA's? Ironic huh!

[Locitus[Admin]]

AA's? Ironic huh!

Oh yeah I forgot about that one!

 

I think RS has something planned for a TIE as well. They have both the faceplate and the chopper helmet now.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

 

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

sure would be nice to have an AA tie pilot helmet and armor!

[iconoclasta_88[TK]]

Vern,

 

I understand and know everything you said. And actually agree with it.

Just be very careful when you say something in name of the Legion 501st. The FISD is part of the legion, but it is not the legion.

 

Even staff members officially are only regular members except for the DL and XO. The rest of the staff, including the DO in all detachments are official only for the detachment. Not for the legion.

 

So even if the command staff of a detachment or garrison make a decision regarding anything, unless vetted by the legion counsel, it is only official for such chapter and not for the entire legion.

 

That regarding the vetted makers thing.

 

Now, don't take me wrong. I only wanted to make it clear that what you stated as official rule of the legion, well, it is not.

 

About the recasting and selling stuff, I never, if you read again, said that someone should make new armor and sell it. Nothing wrong with it by the way. But I never said it. Not to mention that I never have encouraged anyone to recast armor Here or anywhere.

 

Again, I agree with almost all you said. Just dot want to confuse new members with I existing rules. FISD habits and own ruling, that's different.

 

Don't mean to start a discussion here. So stay cool bro.

 

Saludos.

Edited October 20, 2013 by iconoclasta_88

[Griffon King[TK]]

I have a hope of some day casting my own armor (FOR MY OWN USE). I even built a vacuum table, bought a high quality mannequin, 30 lbs of clay, tools, several sheets of plastic, etc. Then I spent about a month trying to create my first mold, starting with a clay forearm piece, then making a plug and eventually running the vacuum table to pull a sheet or two of plastic to see how it looked. The results were.... interesting. After nearly $1,000 I had managed to pull this:

 

 

Obviously, there are too many problems to mention. The moral of the story? Buy yourself a good kit and get trooping!! I

[Daetrin[Admin]]

FYI the Legion *does* have a stance on recasting. The official stance is that we do not condone it. Some people interpret this as turning a blind eye, but nothing can be further from the truth. Yes, some members do believe in unfettered recasting, however that is not the majority opinion.

 

The reality is that molding and vac-forming your own armor is massively time intensive but can be done, as some older 501st members I've met actually went this route and I've seen the results first-hand. OTOH, there are some armors that are considered "open season" and you can certainly recast them and make your own. Then again, this is an expensive route and more expensive than simply buying a kit.

 

If you want to go this route simply to learn some skills, by all means go ahead. However unless you own a legitimate vac-forming business, e.g. are using aluminum bucks and can produce on an industrial scale, I think you'll find that the concept of making money as an armor vendor is just like that of being a drug dealer. Yes, some guys at the top make money, but most still live with their mom's.

[iconoclasta_88[TK]]

Time to update my reading on the chapter and such, I guess.

 

Anyway, what I wanted to make clear is that if anybody is willing to go all the way to create their own armor, is not different at all to anyone designing their own pattern, cutting and sewing their own jawa robe.

 

I never even talked about the members that are selling anything.

 

I once tried to make my own hand plates out of plaster and hot glue. Results were not aweful but not great. I used them for a while, just cause I believed what someone told me, and I think I remember that someone was you Paul... They are cool cause you made them, and that is a lot more than most can say about their stuff.

 

I do think that as a club, we should encourage members to develop their skills and try harder to make better suits. Not only telling them who is it cool to buy from and who is not.

 

Thx Vern, Paul and everyone for an interesting chat.

 

Saludos.

 

Juan.

Edited October 20, 2013 by iconoclasta_88

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Agreed Juan. I think the paucity of information on how to mold your own armor is that it's such a lost skill. I remember when I started in 2005 it seemed there were more resources available. Again, talking to really told timers (e.g. pre-2000), it seemed much more common to go that route.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

great posts gentlemen... we've come a long way baby!