Paint color accuracy

[fritzthefox[TK]]

There seems to be a pretty strong consensus about the best paint colors to match the details on the helmet and armor, but I am wondering precisely what the source of this information is? Does anyone know for a fact that specific Humbrol paints were used, or is this simply a guestimate based on viewing the movies (or, better, the actual armor)?

[FunkyTrigger[TK]]

There is a tutorial on the paint codes in the tutorials section.

It shows what colour to use and where.

And the humbrol and equivalent testors brand paint codes.

 

This is the guide

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

There seems to be a pretty strong consensus about the best paint colors to match the details on the helmet and armor, but I am wondering precisely what the source of this information is? Does anyone know for a fact that specific Humbrol paints were used, or is this simply a guestimate based on viewing the movies (or, better, the actual armor)?

 

I did read a thread a while ago which couldn't definately say that Humbrol was used but as it was a UK based company it was assumed that it would have been the preffered choice.

[Sonnenschein]

According to AA, they used "those little tin cans". Back in '76, there wasn't much around except Humbrol. And very few shades of grey and blue,

[jmm7375[TK]]

I find this soooo, confusing. Why is this information different than the posted tutorial reference. I don't know what is correct to follow anymore.

[SubSkip[TK]]

The 501st CRL requirements do not specify a particular "shade" of color to use. It only requires a pattern of 6 gray and 3 blue.

 

Abdomen Plate

For 501st approval:

• The ab plate has a button area that matches the color pattern shown (3 blue + 6 gray); buttons are approximately 7/16" (11mm) in diameter.
   
  

For level two certification (if applicable):

• Any gap between the ab and kidney plate shall be no more than 1/2" (12.5mm) wide. Any shims used to achieve this effect should be of a similar material and color as the ab and kidney plate. Shims shall fit flush and seams are allowed .
   
  

For level three certification (if applicable):

• Ideally there should be no gap between the ab and kidney plates, just a single visible seam line.
  
• Rivets on the left side of the ab plate: a total of three rivets, the heads should be approximately 5/16" (8mm) diameter and equally spaced out along the depth of the armor and about 10mm from the edge. They may be painted white, or not. Note:For the original used TK armor, this type of rivets where, bifurcated rivets or split rivet.
  
• A single male snap on the top right corner of the ab plate shall be present.
  
• A single split rivet or brad shall be present on the crotch tab of the ab plate. It does not need to be functional.
   
  

 

I would just go with what looks good to you. Personally, I like the 1138 gray and a darker shade of blue.

[fritzthefox[TK]]

Sorry, Lee, not trying to muddy the water. I think the favored Humbrol colors (or their Testors equivalents) are probably as accurate as they are likely to be. I was just curious. I've built enough models that I'm always on the lookout for historical reference.

 

But, yeah, sometimes too much information is needlessly confusing. A man with one watch always knows what time it is, but a man with two watches is never sure.

[WhiteNight[TK]]

I find this soooo, confusing. Why is this information different than the posted tutorial reference. I don't know what is correct to follow anymore.

 

Exactly my thoughts! The colour on the tubestripes is regularly referred as French Blue, Midnight Blue and now even Mediterranean Blue? Almost the same with the buttons... And now even the Humbrol colours aren't the right ones?

 

I bought me a can of Humbrol French Blue just a few days ago, but now I think I'll stay with the old perceived colours and make the tubestripes Midnight Blue, too.

[FunkyTrigger[TK]]

I don't know what you guys are on about.

It's just French blue humbrol 14 or the testors equivalent to use.

And the grey humbrol number 5 or the testors equivalent.

TK 1650 Bilhags tutorial is correct,

It's the same one in the tutorial section and same one that I posted above.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2012 by FunkyTrigger

[FunkyTrigger[TK]]

Humbrol are the little model tin pots of paints used by AA in the late 70's

[Sonnenschein]

[JoeR]

Matt Gauthier aka Trooper Expert TE colour matched his original helmet about 10 years ago. Jez from Starwarshelmets.com Pantone matched an ESB helmet at Christies and Trooperbay did the same with a Propstore of London ROTJ helmet.

[WhiteNight[TK]]

This is the thread with the list:

 

http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/22278-tubestripe-color/page__hl__tubestripe__fromsearch__1

 

It lists Midnight Blue for buttons but no Mediterranean Blue for tubestripes, hence the difference in the palette and probably the confusion. I for my part have not read about Mediterranean Blue before, while searching the forums.

 

Matt Gauthier aka Trooper Expert TE colour matched his original helmet about 10 years ago. Jez from Starwarshelmets.com Pantone matched an ESB helmet at Christies and Trooperbay did the same with a Propstore of London ROTJ helmet.

 

Which tells us to use the colours from the list above, right? Did all three confirm the French Blue as the colour of the tubestripes?

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

All I know for sure is that if you use the darker blue and go for expert or centurion levels then you will get asked to change it (from the threads I have read)

[geordietrooper]

tony-rb a.k.a. tk300 did a load of research years ago regarding the paints & humbrol

[WhiteNight[TK]]

tony-rb a.k.a. tk300 did a load of research years ago regarding the paints & humbrol

 

On his page, he suggests Midnight Blue or Mediterranean Blue for the tubestripes and explicitly discards French Blue:

 

http://www.tonybarnett.plus.com/anhref.html

[Sonnenschein]

On his page, he suggests Midnight Blue or Mediterranean Blue for the tubestripes and explicitly discards French Blue:

 

http://www.tonybarne...com/anhref.html

 

Keep in mind that the info on this page is over 10 years old. There was much progress since then.

[fritzthefox[TK]]

Did Jez or Trooperbay happen to mention the PMS numbers of their color-matching efforts?

[firebladejedi[TK]]

Tony B's site is so out of date it's almost back in fashion. My advise would be to forget anything and everything written on it.

 

And remember guys, the belts are not made from canvas...

[geordietrooper]

Tony B's site is so out of date it's almost back in fashion.

 

most of it is yes but not all

[fritzthefox[TK]]

Hmmm. Well, color me skeptical about the French Blue tube stripes. I contacted Mike at Trooper Bay, and he feels that the best match based on his color matching efforts is Gentian Blue. Gentian Blue is PMS 287, which is very close to Old Glory Blue (in the Pantone 280 range, the color used for Post Office boxes in the US), which has the same federal specification (The Feds have their own color matching book, which is often used for reference by model builders) as Blue Angel Blue (FS15050). Humbrol's Midnight Blue is a very close match to Testor's Blue Angel Blue.

 

I am hoping to contact Jez and see if I can learn what numbers he came up with. No word yet.

 

I don't know where the French Blue idea came from, but it seems to be rather light in comparison to what I've seen on the screen. Film and photo are secondhand images subject to the vagaries of exposure, so it is possible that the screen images appear different than in real life. I am sure the all-white, glossy uniforms of the TK's gave the photographers fits, and may have forced them to underexpose. Or it could be that someone matched a faded helmet. Enamels weather pretty well, but the film helmets were subjected to both desert sun and harsh studio lighting, as well as thirty years of age, so they may have significantly faded. Certainly ESB/ROTJ decals would have suffered. So who is to say? Ultimately, I guess it is up to the armor builder to decide if they want to mimic the screen or the actual prop.

 

Curiously, the decals I ordered from Trooper Bay did not really match PMS287 in my Pantone book, probably because that was as close as his vinyl supplier could get. The decals T/MC provided me were closer, but a bit too dark. I have yet to find a decal that seems right to me. I think painting the stripes will be the best way to achieve accurate color.

Edited December 27, 2012 by fritzthefox

[Locitus[Admin]]

Good thing we have close up pictures of the stripes under more normal lighting conditions then.

[fritzthefox[TK]]

The stripes here DO more nearly resemble French Blue, at least when lit with sufficient light. Color balancing and bumping up the exposure of the second photo yields a blue much like the first photo, which seems very much like French Blue to me.

 

I decided to look up French Blue's nearest hexidecimal equivalent, and dropped it into Photoshop and then had the color picker select the nearest Pantone match. You know what it returned? Pantone 287. Which, it appears, also goes by the name of Gentian Blue, so I guess they are equivalent. Trooper Bay's matching efforts DO appear to support French Blue.

 

It is interesting to note that Blue Angel Blue is a color that hangs within the same Pantone color range (PMS 280) as French Blue. So it appears as if the only real question is not so much the hue of the stripes, but the brightness of them. And that is VERY dependent upon camera and lighting conditions, as well as the age of the paint/decal.

 

It appears to me that the choice of French Blue or Blue Angel Blue/Midnight Blue is largely dependent upon whether you want your helmet to appear as it does in person, or how it appears on film.

Edited December 27, 2012 by fritzthefox

[Sonnenschein]

Please guys, you can't never ever judge a color from a pic. It is simply not possible.

 

Too many factors to be considered.

[fritzthefox[TK]]

I tend to agree. In fact, I would go even farther and say that you can't really make a definitive judgement about color at all, because it is entirely subjective. No two people will perceive the same color the same way, even if all other variables are the same. And they rarely are.

 

The more you tighten your grip, the more it slips through your fingers, so to speak.

 

That doesn't mean it isn't educational to try.

 

My goal with this thread was not to establish a definitive color for the details as much as it was to discover the origin of the existing schools of thought on the topic. I was puzzled why the favored blue changed from a darker color to a lighter one. In that, at least, I think I have been partially successful. I know more now than I did a few days ago, anyway.