CableGuy

Hi Corey, Thank you for your EIB application. To allow us to move forward, could we kindly request a couple of addition photos from the check list?; •Close up of hovi tips •close up of ab buttons •Holster to belt attachment •Inside of thigh ammo pack fixings •side-on photos of your sniper knee (for alignment) Thank you in advance. Dan

Great stuff, Garry! Well done. :-)

Agreed. That’s a great way to do it. Top job!! :-)

Very nice. Might be a little small, though. ;-)

Fair point, Steve. As my only suggestion was to discuss the brow height for ANH Stunt, I'll Kindly invite [mention=22112]justjoseph63[/mention] to help and edit this post to reflect the suggested ANH changes for L3; Level 3 - 1. Ideally, the ears shall be tilted back at an angle to where the screws align closely with the rear angle of the trap located above the rear of the brow. 2. Tube stripes are positioned no more than approximately 7/16ths (1 cm) from the cheek, (a standard pencil width). 3. Top section of posterior armor shall be in line with the bottom portion of the kidney plate. 4. Posterior snaps/cod rivet shall not be painted. 5. Ideally, a minimal (or no) gap is permitted between the top of the shoulder bell and the shoulder bridge. 6. All abdomen buttons are integrated onto the ab-button panels/plates. directly on the armor No separate/added buttons are permitted. 7. D-ring on end cap shall be of a similar shape/size to the original Sterling type. 8. 3D printed weapons must be free of noticeable print lines. I would also invite [mention=22112]justjoseph63[/mention] to summarise the below; I would invite [mention=16782]gmrhodes13[/mention] to edit and refine the below; ***Regarding ANH Stunt Brow height, to start, I would simply ask that anyone reading this look at the photos and explanation on post #1 of this thread; (https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/46285-early-2019-crl-update-change-requests/ If we agree that the majority of ANH Stunt Troopers seen on screen display a gap between the eye sockets and the brow (much like the majority have tube stripes, the majority have a holster, the majority have 8 teeth drilled, etc.), then I put forward that ANH Stunt was "intended", based purely on the many screen shots and footage from ANH, to have a gap between the eyes and the brow. If the majority agree on this, then perhaps we could discuss if we, as a community, think that this should be a suggestion to new troopers. As the majority of seen on screen ANH Stunt troopers display this gap, I personally feel that this is a defining feature of the stunt. As such, I cannot see any reason why this could not be "suggested" from day one (basic), and perhaps requested at the higher levels. For example, "A gap is present between the eyes and the brow, as per the CRL photo." (NO EXACT MEASUREMENTS!!!)

That’s okay. Many aren’t perfect first time round, including mine. Just use your gray paint to straighten up those lines. Works a treat. :-) You'll be fine. :-)

Thank you, kind sir. I’m sure you’ll achieve your Trooper dream, just stay positive and ask away with any questions. We were all new to this at some stage. :-)

There have been specific requirements for L3 for some time, many of which are much more ‘replica’ oriented than some of the things being discussed here. Such as the side rivets on the ab/kidney; CRL Optional L3; Three rivets, approximately 5/16"(8mm) diameter, are present on the left side of the abdomen armor. Note: The original rivets used for the TK armor were bifurcated rivets or split rivets. This is just one example, however the optional L3 requirements have always been quite involved. This would have been present when you joined. This didn’t put you off and your now doing what you wanted to achieve. All I’m saying is, having realistic targets, based on the original suits, for those that want to aim and strive for the optional L3 should not put off people that want to achieve basic.

Hi Frank, It's not ramble, ramble, Frank - it's your valid opinion. I understand what you're saying, and that is the beauty of basic. Nobody is forced to submit their armour for approval from their peers. Nobody is forced to aim for, or submit for, EIB and Centurion. And, from what I have seen across the forum builds, nobody is pressured or bullied into going beyond their skill set. Joining the FISD is totally optional. And for those that share your view that they don't see the need for higher levels, this really shouldn't affect them in any way. The Attache team and other experienced builders give constructive suggestions and advice when required. The majority of our regular helpers on FISD have a good manner with new and old members and any untoward responses or attitudes are reported. If a new builder starts a WIP and their first comment is "I'm starting my build and aiming for Centurion", as many of them do these days, I can't see any issue with helping them achieve that from day one. It is much easier to aim for Centurion from day one, with the help of the years of build experience on the forum, than it is to aim for basic, then have to make retrospective changes down the line if they choose to move to EIB and Centurion. "Yea centurion may be super easy for some people as it is but not for others. And why does it have to be difficult?" I don't believe it's super easy for anyone, well, especially not on their first armour build. It requires research, time and effort, and in some cases a few extra £/$ on certain bits of hardware. However, it is made available to those that DO want to aim higher. Basic allows a more straight forward path to trooping, and nobody has a problem with that. "There is a huge emphasis on getting a higher level. I don’t see why, again that’s me. I joined to troop and meet some like minded people." Surely the reason that many people start a WIP thread is to get feedback or support from the community. I know I certainly did. I did my research but also valued the constructive feedback from more experienced troopers. If they don't want to take the advice, that's okay. I also joined to troop, make money for charity, make people smile, and to live out my life-long dream of building and BEING a Stormtrooper. I could have achieved these goals with basic clearance, but choose to take my armour I high as I could. This doesn't make me any better at raising money, bringing smiles or living out my dream, it was just something that I wanted to do and worked hard to achieve. Basic clearance is not really being challenged here. Bringing awareness of what CAN be achieved, if a member wants to achieve it, is at the heart of these suggestions. Best wishes, Dan

Change what? There are so many suggestions on the cards, I’m unsure which of them you mean. :-)

I get what you’re saying, however, we still seem to have a huge misunderstanding about this. I’ve mentioned quite a few times that there should be NO exact brow height. The reference material shows that the majority of the stunt TKs seen in ANH had “a gap” between the eyes and the brow. If we point people to the reference material when they start there build, this should be quite obviously a defining characteristic of the Stunt. At this stage, the measurements argument keeps coming up which is clouding the issue. :-(

No worries - here we are; Credit to the original source for this diagram. From memory, it wasn’t that difficult. Just do little bits at a time and keep checking the shape against the reference. :-) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Based on the well presented evidence/reference material provided in the ROTJ thread, I agree with the changes for higher levels. [emoji1303] Good point in the CRL photos. For example, the E-11 reference photo STILL has the magazine end cap/plate on the wrong way round - this is not a good representation.

I get what you’re saying, however, basic is still very achievable. This should easily cater for those that ‘just’ want to get into costuming. I think this also ensures that we’re not elitist. It’s clear from the passion and skill across the community that this is more than costuming to some - this is a hobby. Building a top notch suit of armour with all the bells whistles deserves recognition for those that want to go the extra mile. However, we also do not look down upon those that simply want to pass basic and troop. As with many things in life, we all have personal goals. Many of the ideas above have been listed as “suggested” changes. We’re not going to bully people into them - we can use this as recommendations for those that want to build in more detail. I feel that if some of these were listed as “ideally” this and “suggested” that, we are simply adding to the knowledge bank available to new members.

Hi Patrick, So sorry - I completely forgot to reply. The T-track work was freehand with the dremel. A little risky, however it did earn me “surgeon” status from @Dracotrooper! Lol. That little dremel disc (approx 1mm thick) came in really handy!! The trigger guard ended up being a combination of a vice, pliers and a hammer. Most of it could be manipulated with the vice and pliers, or two pairs of pliers. It wasn’t overly hard to bend so a little trial and error, and a reference photo from Jesse (dracotrooper) helped make it possible. Let me know if you’d like a copy of the guard reference. Hope that hat helps a little. Looking forward to the next update. :-)

Indeed Marc. This has been suggested. Starting from BBB. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL - just a tad!! Here's my thoughts on what Joseph raised; 1. Ears shall be tilted back at an angle to where the screws align closely with the rear angle of the trap located above the rear of the brow. Agree that this should be adopted as a "suggestion" (not a requirement) from day one, as I can't see many wanting to change them after basic and EIB. If the helmet can allow for this, why not aim for it from the start. Personally, I think this should be a suggestion only, not actually in the requirements. 2. Tube stripes are positioned no more than approximately 7/16ths (1 cm) from the cheek, (a standard pencil width). Agreed - "highly suggested" for L3. 3. Top section of posterior armor shall be in line with the bottom portion of the kidney plate. I would have thought this was a given, and we would highly suggest this at L3 anyway. 4. Posterior snaps/cod rivet shall not be painted. Agreed - requirement for L3 5. Minimal (or no) gap is permitted between the top of the shoulder bell and the shoulder bridge. Difficult due to the various shoulder bell sizes and various personal size and shapes. Use of the word "ideally" would sit nicely here. 6. All abdomen buttons are integrated and painted directly on the armor. No separate/added buttons are permitted. Agree - required for L3 7. D-ring on end cap shall be of a similar shape/size to the original Sterling type. Agreed - required for L3 (if we can enforce a blaster requirement) 8. 3D printed weapons must be free of noticeable print lines. Agreed - requirement for L3 Regarding Stunt brows, I think the images provided speak for themselves.

Try to line up the lower edge (elbow end). The tops of the originals didn’t line up too great, as below. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Didn’t the ghostbusters teach you anything?? “Don’t cross the streams!!” [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Nice work. Making great progress. :-)

I didn’t relate it to an award for me - I wanted to troop with Centurion approved armour. I wear the Centurion badge with pride and maintain this standard whenever I troop.

Each to their own, however I wouldn’t want to put in all that effort and then make negative changes that negate the award.

Thanks for you input Paul. This comment about SWAT has confused me somewhat. I was under the impression that SWAT was about emulating a specific screen trooper, down to the weathering patterns, bumps and scrapes, hovi-tip orientation, accessories etc. This sounds much more like prop replication that Centurion. There are many pictures in the first post that indicate that the majority of the 50 stunt TKs created for ANH had a 'very similar' brow height. Based on the movie itself and the other reference materials available, it very much appears that the majority of Stunt TKs had a small gap between the top of the eyes and the bottom of the brow. As far as I am aware, nobody is saying that all 6 Hero helmets had a low brow. Various, specific hero helmets do exist with low brow, such as the promo trooper. I would agree that Luke and Han do not have specifically low brows. However, the point of the suggestion was to focus on the Stunt TK, as this is FAR more prominent throughout the legion. Hi Frank, Love your passion, sir. I'd say to this, I think something might be getting lost in translation as this thread progresses. I don't think that anyone is suggesting an EXACT brow height - that would not be fitting to an OT TK in any way. However, the majority of stunt TKs in ANH appear to have a gap between the eyes and the brow. Yes, there are a couple of troopers that buck this trend, as highlighted in post no.1. Looking at them closely, this very much looks like wardrobe malfunctions. I would not expect ANY current Centurion to be made to change their armour if the CRL evolves. Many requirements in life change over time. For example, I passed my driving test many years ago. I'm certain that theoretical and practical driving tests have changed over the years, however, I am not expected to loose my driving licence because those tests have been changed. I passed based on the requirements at that time. The strange thing I've found with Centurion is that it has been openly said on FISD that once clearance has been granted, the costumer if free to troop how they wish. For example, swapping out their rubber gloves for Nomex etc. Whilst this is off topic, it sprang to mind so I thought I'd mention it. This Makes no sense to me. As above, the topic was more about Stunt TKs. Although, notice another Stunt in the background with a clear gap above the eyes??? [emoji6]

Personally, I don't see a problem with this as a separate award. This sounds more like MEPD's SWAT. At some point in the future I will be getting myself an RS HDPE lid (next time they do a run) and will be trying my hardest to create a replica of the original helmets, warts and all. If money allows, I would love to create a full suit of actual "Screen accurate" armour, including weathered gaffer tape, cracks where applicable, and replicate a seen-on-screen trooper. However, I know that this could not be officially trooped as we, in the 501st and the FISD, use the CRL to follow a set of 'ideals'. The CRL is not all about screen accuracy, as screen accuracy actually includes a lot of damage and issues that we could not sustain through weekly/monthly trooping. My understanding of the CRL, including EIB and Centurion, was to create an "ideal". Trying to create what we, as a community, feel that the TK was intended to look like based on the reference material available to us, and help us look uniformed as a group when we troop. That's why we don't allow "Mr. No Stripes", or troopers without their holster, even though these are "screen accurate". When we all finish our TK build, it looks like it is fresh form the Imperial Armoury - did a single TK in ANH look like this?? As we are all different weights and sizes, different armour kits vary in terms of mould quality, colour (based on PVC/ABS/acrylic capped ABS etc)., we are never going to look the same. To me, the beauty of having Basic, EIB and Centurion is that people have the choice. If they want to buy a kit and aim for basic, that's all good. If someone wants to spend hours searching build threads, reference photos, tutorials, the movies themselves, I think it's great that they can work towards Centurion. As most of the "suggestions" here are based around the higher levels, I can't see that this should cause to much of an issue. The great thing about this 5 page discussion is that this, in itself, is spreading awareness. As many of us do on the forum, we will offer advice where it is requested - the more awareness of these build "suggestions" across the community, the better, as more and more prospective troopers will see the options available to them from day one of their journey.

But it does have a visible gap between the eyes and the brow. ;-) [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]