rhapsodyred99

Yes that looks much better! No worries! We are all about troopers helping troopers. Grats on your tk number, just remember to help someone else out if they need it

Here are some shots of the Gentle Giant mini Bust that has a SE backpack, granted not 100% accurate but still some nice shots: Shows the way the back pack sides curve. also the top detail just visible in some shots from the movie where the hose connects. I am guessing they were given access to the vaults which allowed them to make the bust based on the SE pack.

Continuing on Starting to look at the back pack: Just pointing out a few details. the yellow square shows 'shotgun shell" esque things on the side , though they look like they may be capped. The blue square shows the strap from the back pack. the red square shows the top white detail...not sure what this found object would be, its similar to an oil filter but not exact. The red Circle shows what would be the tupperware lid on an old pack, looks like a lighter circle indented into a larger black cover this could still be a lid I suppose of some kind. The white lines are where I think the chest to back strapping is, the red lines in it are what I think happened to this troopers molding. I think it came loose from the side and got tucked behind his strap, whether on purpose to hid a flapping edge or an accident when the costume was being put on I don't know. Not much to see here, just showing the depth of the pack, but look at the red square....ribbed shoulder bridge peeking out. Just some more back detail that had been washed out in previous shots. Few more details, and red circle shows the ribbed shoulder bridge again. Yellow circle shows lines on the back trap. From the anatomy of a dewback...Yellow Circle shows the inside of the pack it is a hollow concave (or convex depending how you see it) back instead of a frame of any kind. Looks like the sides curve around the body. Red box shows the shotgun shells again (look to be plumming pipe with caps, or possibly large fuses, dunno.

Yes its in hand. It has a rubber interior as it is fire hose, you could totally sew it, with a decent machine, would not want to do it by hand. It is a lightweight hose, but still with the rubber in there would suck with no machine. I am not sure you could not just iron out the section you want as belting, it is stiff enough to hold its shape. you might could also cut the back lengthwise and e6000 the whol ething then stick something heavy on it if you did not want a machine sew line. Ill grab some pics later and post them up.

That would probably work, but I just got fire hose from here: Just got it in today, and it looks great. not as shiney as this belt, but the weave is spot on: And if you look at the top of the belt pictured it is rolled like you would expect a tube to be.... I got it for my SE sandtrooper, but I am going to switch out my ROTJ belt to it as well.

Continuing on, I found some nice info on Starwarshelmets.com. For some reason it never occurred to me to look there first to see what they had to say about it all. This snippit from a guy who wore both the ROTJ Suits and the Tour suits: (bold text added by me) Velcro held the calves together, but that is all, except for the belt and over-the-shoulder fasteners / shoulder pads. My calves were too big so they gaffer-taped mine shut with white tape. (nice to see I am not the only one!) The arms and thighs were glued- together NOT Velcro. The main body was held together with elastics. The boots just slipped on. Under the pelvis was a rubber belt (that slid between the legs) (Rubber belt? seems it would be elastic...) that was bolted (bolted? since there are no obvious ends sticking out of the butt armor, if it was bolted it would have had to be done on a plate like the snap...) into the back piece and clamped into the front cup with a female button on the belt, and a male bolted to the front cup. We never wore holsters or the thermal detonators. They were afraid people may try to take them off of us- we wouldn't have known! You really cant see much! A belt was worn under the suit to loop the front thigh elastics into to hold them up. I could not sit in my suit! These were made for thin 70's British guys. The gun I had was METAL. In the archives I did see resin ones but mine was always metal. And this piece of info from Don Bies: In the mid 1990's Lucasfilm produced a significant number of Darth Vader and Stormtrooper Costumes for various promotions tours around the world. As Don Bies, the Lucasfilm Archivist explains... There were a total of 18 Darth Vader's made for the Fox marketing campaign of 1995, and I believe 32-36 Stormtroopers made. Fox needed so many for different campaigns around the world, so they were sent off to places such as Australia, the UK, Italy, Spain, France, Mexico...A manual created by me accompanied each set (One Vader and Two troopers), explaining sizes of actors, how to dress, and how to act. Unlike the popular myth, the suits were not made for the Special Editions, although many of the Stormtroopers were used in some of the scenes for extra filming, as the many original suits were in bad shape. The ILM model shop, under the guidance of Charlie Bailey, made the Stormtroopers, and I believe they were created using styrene. The molds were fabricated by pouring plaster into existing parts (ESB or RotJ era suits), and cleaned up here and there--though many parts are not as sharp as their originals. Additionally, some smaller patterns were created new, such as belt and knee details. They also molded prop guns to go with the characters out of urethane. If this is true then the SE Sandy was indeed a tour suit, patterned and molded from ROTJ armor. It does not really Jive with the anatomy of a dewback documentary where they keep going on about using original armor etc (which we know for a fact isn't true as these are ROTJ esque TKS) I can see the guys pulling the SE suits out of the existing tour suit inventory though. Here are some cool shots of the SE/Tour suits going together which do not offer alot of new detail, but are nice: ------------ In that bottom pic look at the crotch of the suit. A wide strap, that looks to be a snap, on a plate..the next suit you can see the cup area of the crotch looks to my eyes the strap is glued (with that famous white glue residue) to the cup. No idea if it is really rubber or elastic, the guy who wore them claims rubber, but im pretty sure that is a snap not a bolt so... If the suits were indeed tour suits, this is good news as there are all kinds of shots of tour suits from the various exibits around the world. like this one, also from Starwars helmets: -------- it shows the ear rank marks 'skipping a bump" and a clear sticker on the cheek/tears. 5 stripes on the tear, 12 on the cheek of this one. (CFO stickers have 13 on the cheek and 5 on the tear) and this one showing the back of a tour lid on whitearmor: ----------- Showing 9 stripes on the left back trap (CFO has 9) Have not found the right trap yet, but the CFO sticker has 8 there... Check this shot out: ----------- look at the wide white band of elastic going from chest to back. None of the other tour suits I have found (or the SE sandies) have a white elastic there, making me think this was a repair job, but if they repaired it, even with the wrong elastic, it means there was probably a connector there in the beginning that was replaced. Other note is look at that shoulder strap, what the heck? Long and flexy... Does not really match my CFO. Seeing as how it is not seen under the pauldron, and was only attatched to each side with velcro, I wonder if they might have left it off of the Sandies. Look at this shot, which granted is from a ROTJ suit I am pretty sure: Red Circle: black elastic from shoulder to chest, much like the white elastic from ANH. If this was present they would not have needed the bridges to hold the armor together at the top, so would they have bothered with the bridges? Black Circle Very thin flexy shoulder bridge again. Yellow Circle (and small blue Circle): Just pointing out the elastic at the shoulder bells. Large blue Circle: Hmm looks like strapping from the ab and kidney that would probably have been glued to the back and chest at some point maybe? I would think that a skinny short actor would not need a back to kidney connection, but as I am neither short or skinny, its probably best i put one in http://forum.mepd.net/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif

Thanks ! Not sure if I want to be (in)famous for the SE sandy or not, but I think after 16 or so years its time for someone to show em some love. I have a correction on the gun detail. After staring at it some more, and playing with it in photoshop I am pretty much convinced its an optical illusion caused by the lighting. If you look closer you can see it is a normal back: In the upper picture I was taking the red outline section to be a smaller tub eon the back of the blue outlined section that I thought was the cap. in the lower section you can see the blue outline is actually the cap, with the red line being the rear site and the yellow being the keeper that you would push to allow you to take off the endcap. It was just the light that made it look odd at first.

Perfect!

On the subject of belting: Finding 2.5 inch webbing belt material is pretty much impossible short of special ordering it. 2 inches or 3 inches no worries but 2.5 nuh uh. You can even see the top is rolled like you would expect a tube would be.... Here is another shot of a ROTJ suit (this may be a tour suit) Red circles show strapping, but look at the yellow circle...Rivet right where our binoc sandy has one. Not sure if it is to hold the clam shell of the suit together instead of elastic strapping, I.E. the belt acts as the "hinge" of the torso instead of internal strapping as a sort of on the spot repair, or what. One thing is for sure not all of them have that rivet.

Continuing a few shots from the anatomy of a dewback, poor quality, but some detail not seen in the movie. The strap from the clamshell over the hand...This trooper has his on his wrist as opposed to having the strap over his palm... Also note the pauldron, looks alot like my Orange one, only black... here it is again from a different angle. You see its on his wrist not across his palm. I blame user error... Also this shot shows how the clam shell is not rotating with his hand, see how it is not at his knuckles? I think this is because it is using the ROTJ strapping technique that has a strap from the forearm to the clamshell, which stops any rotation. Not sure why they do it that way, other than to not lose a clamshell during transit, as a strap over the palm only alows the hand to rotate with the clamshell freely. The chest and back side straps pictured here im not so sure about, but that strapping may account for the odd black rectangle on the binoc trooper I pointed out earlier with the missing trim. this is a shot of some ROTJ TKs getting rolled by some teddy bears... You can see the chest and back strapping and the back to kidney strapping in this shot. Also note the thin strap from the shoulder bell that has actually gotten over the bicep due to the fall. Granted this is ROTJ, but I am guessing they would have used something very like it. EDIT: I am not sure this is strapping from the back to kidney. It looks loose, as if it runs under the back, but is not attached to it. I think this may be suspenders. If you look at the diagram there are no straps going from kidney to back. With straps going from chest to back, and the chest secured to the ab, it is very likely that the back would not need to be attached to the kidney. Also there is a thread from the person who owns an original ROTJ suit, and he mentions that the use of braces (suspenders to we in the USA) inside his original suit. also there is this pic that shows the actor has suspenders on attached to his thigh belt (to hold them up?) that may well be what is visible in the back here. here is a pauldron shot showing the padded one. Looks a lot like a ANH black pauldron to me, but I am sure the experts on pauldrons may have an opinion on that. I would suspect they reused old pauldrons, but did not have enough, so remade the unpadded ones, because they were quicker/easier, and less expensive than the old style. In the Anatamy of a Dewback documentory George Lucas, comments on how this shoot while seemingly a big deal, was just one small part of the process, and not a very important one. I am guessing that meant use what you got, and make the rest as quick/easy/cheaply as possible.

Starting the research phase while I wait for the new kit parts to arrive. Blue box: Button detail, ROTJ style TK buttons that seem to be unpainted in most shots of the SE sandies, but this guy may actually have the top one painted. I think it is just dirt however, as it matches the rest of the weathering. Red Square: Belt detail showing squared corners again like ROTJ TKs. Also used this shot as reference to determine web belt thickness (I am assuming webbing as the tour suit shots and the ROTJ shots show web belt material). Using a super scientific approach I was able to determine approximations of width. Basically I blue the pic up on my screen until the plastic belt matched my CFO belt width (around 103 mm or 4 and 1/8 inches) I then took out my Super Scientific Measurement Device (SSMD tm) I.E. a ruler and measured the belt width. Right around 64 mm or 2.5 inches, like the ROTJ TKs again. Red Circle: What the heck is that? Looks like a rivet, but his buddies do not seem to have this. could be dirt... It actually looks like a spot a rivet would have been for a holster on a ROTJ TK. I wonder if they were going to do holsters and decided against it, or if this was a reused ROTJ belt? Yellow Square: Again Using my SSMD tm I was able to measure the drop box dimensions. CFO Drop boxes are 126 mm x 65 mm (around 5 x 2 and 9/16 inches) according to my measurements it looks like these are around 126 mm x 66-67 mm. So the CFO ones are correct for the SE since I am willing to give a mm here or there for errors inherent in my method of size determination. Blue Square: Nothing special here just pointing out the obvious ROTJ Clamshell style handguard. Blue Circle: Helmet details, tube stripes (cant really tell how many, or if it is a sticker) , Tears have lines, again not sure how many from this shot. Ear rank stripes number 2 and skip a bump. Red Circle: Showing the "thumbprint" indention on the left arm. I can't find a shot ATM that clearly shows the right arm to see if it also has a thumbprint. Yellow Square: Showing no obvious strap from Shoulder bell to around the arm. I suspect this is done like the ROTJ TK which has a thin strap, higher up on the bell. Red Square: What is going on here? Looks like this particular trooper has lost some of his molding around the chest. It looks like the right section and all the bottom are gone. This is not seen on the others, they have molding all the way around. Naturally they would put the one with a wardrobe malfunction up front and center... Red Square: Showing the rank bars again skipping a bump, and the traps on the back to me in this shot I see lines on the back trap. I cant count how many, but they look to be there, which if they were reusing ROTJ TK stickers , or patterning the TKs after ROTJ, would make sense. Yellow Square: Showing the molding around the back, butt, and the one piece butt and kidney. You can see this trooper has no rivet mark or dirt circle on his belt like the other one. Red Circle: LOL A toilet tank float? Looks like one to me...Fitting since the original packs used the cistern there. Yellow Square: Sniper detail, trimmed like ROTJ and attached with rivets. Red Square: Thigh ammo belt curvature at the bottom, attached with rivets. Red Circle: Bubble lenses Yellow Triangle: Black frown, more conforming to the actual frown than ROTJ which makes it a little sharper. Yellow Circle: Detail of shoulder bell showing the wide shoulder look. has to be some padding under there, look at how extended the top strap is. Can't tell if shoulder bridges are on or off of these guys, I would suspect with these suits being built with Tks they would have had bridges. Blue Square: Detail of pauldron style 2 (the other is padded). This one is flat, with sewn detail to differentiate the shoulder part. It looks as if it is neoprene or rubber, no obvious sewn lines around the edges. Blue Circle: E-11 detail showing ROTJ scope rails, scopes, and the front that looks to be consistant with the MGC Sterlings used for ROTJ. (probably resin casts) Further detail of the guns, but what the heck is going on with the top guys gun back? It looks as iff it has another smaller diameter cylinder on the back of it where the d ring would be, but it isn't there on the second guy. Yellow Circle: Pauldron style 2, padded Red Circle: Trooper lost his drop box... Blue Squares: Ab detail, trooper 2 seems to have a button painted but it is a consistant color with his weathering, so I believe it is dirt. Trooper 4 has no paint on his buttons. Red Squares: Showing the black soles of the boots, as well as the difference in color between the cream armor and the white boots. This is good news as my TK boots have black soles, and are whiter than my CFO armor.

I see what you are saying. This template by billhag is a great way to spot you belt and thigh belt I only mention this because I think they will call you on it for centurion, and your build should go for it. Ill try to find some more pics of a real suit to show what I mean. Right now yours are more squared. Edit found the RS real suit pic where they trace the cut on the thigh belt, knew I had it somewhere I post it just for reference.

I'm on a mobile but it looks like you might want to round off the bottom corner of the thigh ammo belt more. Also the waist belt should have the corners cut at a 45 degree angle. It's hard to tell but I think yours is not. Overall great build!

That is SICK! Very well done!

I know I know for the love of god why???!!!! Well obviously I'm a ROTJ fan (centurion tk and DV). The SE sandies were casts of the ROTJ suits. It is also not something the folks at mepd or fisd have ever seen done completely before. Most people hate the SE sandies but like the oft maligned ROTJ suits you have to accept that they are the tk that lucasfilm considers the ideal and they were in the movie. Actually a ROTJ tk is more of an idealized tk than anything with most of the wonky ness ironed out of them and the lids having no screws and an overall smoother look. Most of us realize that by removing that wonky ness the Rotj tk lost something. Well after building my RS suit to a TD I have learned that everything can be helped with dirt...(sorry Pat!) I found iconoclasta's helmet build where he took a CFO and was turn inning it into a SE sandy lid and it inspired me to use the experience I got from rebuilding my CFO suit and doing the first SE Sandie in the mepd. After the initial "oh god no!" Reactions most folks there are interested in seeing this happen. I know that the SE sandy has not made it to a CRL yet, but the mepd leaders have assured me if I build it, they will have a CRL for me. Basically I will be getting a new untrimmed CFO suit , but I will this time get legs from rob at rt-mod as his are made for larger guys and use overlap, and are a close match aesthetically to my CFO legs. The problem with my tk is that the CFO legs just don't fit a 6 foot 1 230 pound guy very well. They fit but its just not comfortable. (Actually trying to get 2 rt-mod leg sets coming to sub out my ROTJ tk legs as well) In the meantime I am doing my research and plan to build the SE Sandie like I would a swat build. Choosing a trooper and matching his dirt/equipment as close as possible. This will be a bit more difficult as research is slim on the hated SE sandies, they use totally different pauldrons and packs than the original TDs that I can't just pick up at the mepd supply depot. Just thought I'd share my latest madness in case anyone had any insights other than the obvious you must be mental...not that I mind hearing that either I'll try to document the build better than I have done in the past.

We always have several tks. I'm usually the only td, but we always have some dress whites around! One of the reasons I have so many costumes other than being mental, is that I can switch out to whatever is needed at a particular troop. Need a vader? No worries, have several tks already? Sandy it is. Need an extra tk of whatever movie? Got ya covered! I agree that an event with little or no tks would be sad. Luckily we have an amazing armor expert in our garrison that goes out of his way to help people, attending armor parties ( we have one every few months) and just making sure its as easy a process as possible.

For my sandy I put on all but the arms and shoulder bells. I then put on my pack (I have padded hiking pack straps) they sit on either side of my chest/back plates shoulders so even with bridges it would miss them. Of course I have wide shoulders so this may not always work for others. I then attach my shoulder bell straps over the pack. I put on the pauldron, then each arm, then the gloves. My shoulder pouch is secured with a loop of elastic over the top pack frame and then across to the pack strap which keeps the pouch at the right spot/ angle for the move along sandy I am emulating. I would think if you we're not as concerned with the exact placement you could just secure it to the strap itself. When I did this it put the pouch to close to my head and did not match the screen orientation I was going for. The Lewis gun is best carried like they did it on set cradled in the left arm. See the link its how I carry mine else I'm afraid ill clock some poor kid! -----------

Buy Karin's guards you won't be sorry!

ANH forearms are actually not true round they are squished a bit. This helps get your hands in and out. Here is a pic TM posted to show what I mean. His suits are like this. You could do to yours what I did to my CFO (which being cast from a real ROTJ suit that was stored flat for years the forearms were not quite the shape they were 30 years ago). Which is heat the end of the forearm in boiling water making sure not to let it touch the sides or bottom of the pan. Then pinch it to the shape you want and run cold water over it to set it. Saves the angst of a heat gun or the pain of armor bites. Here is what the elbow end of an ANH forearm looks like which should help you get the shape right.

Yep actually looks like 2 styles of pauldron one is more like the old style with padding and the other is flat either rubber or neoprene or something. This was posted by TM and it shows the 2 types. The padded one sort of looks like my trooperbay pauldron upside down... Not a lot of research has been done on these guys because most fans hate em.

Also looks like the belt material may only be 2 inches wide...

Hello all! I am seriously thinking of doing a SE sandy after getting inspired by Juan's lid build. I know they are nearly universally hated but what can I say I like an underdog! And my centurion IS a ROTJ so obviously I am a bit warped... XD Anyway the shots on look sir droids and the anatomy of a dewback documentary are from the DVD release I am pretty sure. I was hoping someone with the Blu ray might be able to take some screens for me of the SE sandies. Really need some detail shots of backpacks and the rear traps but any thing may help to clear it up as they are not just straight ROTJ tks with new packs. From what I can tell they are assembled the same way as a ROTJ TK. But they have black soles and possibly no stripes on the rear traps. Also no TD or holster. It looks like they are using ROTJ E11s. The pack is a totally new design and the Pauldron has 2 styles one with padded ribs on the neck line and one that is flat. No pouches and normal tk sniper with rivets holding it on. So on a scale of 1-10 how crazy am I to even think about this?

Mine went for the second ROTJ centurion so yeah up to the 501st no worries.

Well not to really say one way or the other on the NE because I do not know, but I am 6 foot 1 and 230 pounds. I had to trim Alot off of the untrimmed RS legs and arms, forearms and shins to fit my legs and arms. I did have to add 2.5 inch shims to close the ab and kidney gap. an Untrimmed RS suit comes with a ton of extra plastic on the front and back of the limbs to allow for a custom fit. They have a deep vac machine and when thye made the forms they made the forms a little taller on the limbs to allow for a custom fit. I can't remember how much exactly I removed on the shins/forearms, but I know I removed quite a few inches from the biceps and thighs, and I do not have tiny arms and legs.. My biceps are 14.5 inches My thighs are 26.5 at the top and 18 inches at the bottom. I know I had to cut a heck of a lot off of both. Here is a pic of Wayne's RS thigh to get an idea of just how much is left in the back:

Keep pushing it may happen. Until recently the 16 stripes on the left side of the Move Along Sandtrooper was not allowed either (said 9-15 in the CRL). And he has to be the most recognizable Sandy out there. Thankfully after a few of us who wanted to make that particular Sandy got shut down by our GML's we were able to convince the powers that be to change it. So hang in there...