Interested in joining the hobby but requiring some advice

[wp1945]

2 minutes ago, justjoseph63 said:

Dang... one of the few southern states I don't know anyone in.   

I believe it is a smaller group but I will be sure to reach out soon! I'll definitely volunteer for the position of handler as well. That sounds like a great plan! Thank you!

[Sweatshop]

15 hours ago, gmrhodes13 said:

You know a higher level of accuracy has come up in conversations quite a few times in the past, along the lines of how MEPD do their level 3 program, this could be something that members could ask in the upcoming election Q&A's for detachment leaders in January/February 

Since a lot of people are stitch counters in this hobby, I feel like it’d be useful to separate the levels into 

 

Level 1 - Acceptable

Level 2 - Ideal

Level 3 - Screen Accurate

 

doesn’t really make sense to have level 3 the final level when people like @wp1945 and myself on the R1TK want to achieve beyond clean.

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

26 minutes ago, Sweatshop said:

Since a lot of people are stitch counters in this hobby, I feel like it’d be useful to separate the levels into 

 

Level 1 - Acceptable

Level 2 - Ideal

Level 3 - Screen Accurate

 

doesn’t really make sense to have level 3 the final level when people like @wp1945 and myself on the R1TK want to achieve beyond clean.

I doubt what is already there would change hence why some have asked for another level for full accuracy.

 

Level 3 - Screen Accurate is kind of what we have now BUT the issue is there are different details on different troopers but for all the levels a generalized look is used. MEPD pick a trooper and replicate it which we don't do, again hence a L4 accuracy level. 

 

Some info on these levels and why they are what they are

 

Albeit some things are changing, with the recent proposal to build a variant FOTK blaster.

As I've said who knows what the next command team's vision is for the detachment and what may or may not change, it all comes down to the membership to propose, discuss and vote for changes or additions

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

I think any sort of Level 4 would need to focus on the helmet rather than the other components of the armor.  Unlike our brothers in the MEPD who's entire costumes were weathered by prop men so that each had a unique look, TKs were all pretty much the same (except for the odd Gaffa tape repairs ).  Also, we cannot be 100% sure that every actor used the same armor and helmet during the entire filming process.

 

While there were a limited number of Sandies, there were 50+ TKs.  Thanks to sites like Starwarshelmets we can see close-ups of some of the screen used ones, and boy are there differences in the scuffs/cracks/stains/paint chips.  Below are just four, so that means there are 46 others to choose from.  These things really got beat to heck, lol.

 

  

 

                                       

 

If someone wanted to replicate a particular helmet, detailed reference photos showing the front/back and both sides would of course be required, but it could potentially be a problem when submitting for approval.  What I mean by that is just how much detail would be enough to pass?  Just similar paint chips/scuffs in general, or down to the most intricate nuance?

 

Could someone be failed if they missed a tiny chip (1) or the paint finish wasn't worn down enough (2)?  What if the ears weren't trimmed the exact same as the reference image used? (etc.)

 

      

 

I honestly don't want to cause a controversy and I really don't have an issue with creating a Level 4 (I think it may be cool) but IMO any guidelines would need to be voted on and set in black and white in detail so that there is no room for subjectivity/ambiguity.  We all have opinions.  What I see as "Meh, it looks fine to me" could be seen by someone else as "Are you kidding, that's not even close"!  Nailing down the precise wording for a prospective CRL for this could be a drawn out affair.  Those have been around and participated in CRL change discussions know that they can get a bit heated at times and not everyone will be happy, but that's how it works.  Give and take.

 

[Chemi[Staff]]

Personally, I am not in favor of a level 4, but it is something that is not up to me (I have a lot of bosses...Lol....). As Glen rightly says, this issue is on the DO team's to-do list, but we should certainly wait for the elections, to know if "we will remain in office", and be able to discuss this in depth.

 

[themaninthesuitcase[Admin]]

The problem with basing it on a single trooper is you would need to do so as they are on screen.  If you base it on say that image above, how much of that was from 1976 and how much of that is it's 47 years old?

 

The idea for them on screen is they were white and clean, though by the end of filming we know that wasn't the case anymore.

 

If you wanted level 4 I'd be more going down the route of bra hook shins and the bent wire for the chest attachments. Though that's prop replication at a functional level which is never what we've been aiming for, though I believe MEPD do.

 

FWIW a lot of us do have weathered armour, after a few troops you end up more like Tontine IV than the Death Star.  Some people polish this off, others let it build up  (like me)

[dcx13]

6 hours ago, justjoseph63 said:

I think any sort of Level 4 would need to focus on the helmet rather than the other components of the armor.  Unlike our brothers in the MEPD who's entire costumes were weathered by prop men so that each had a unique look, TKs were all pretty much the same (except for the odd Gaffa tape repairs ).  Also, we cannot be 100% sure that every actor used the same armor and helmet during the entire filming process.

 

While there were a limited number of Sandies, there were 50+ TKs.  Thanks to sites like Starwarshelmets we can see close-ups of some of the screen used ones, and boy are there differences in the scuffs/cracks/stains/paint chips.  Below are just four, so that means there are 46 others to choose from.  These things really got beat to heck, lol.

 

  

 

                                       

 

If someone wanted to replicate a particular helmet, detailed reference photos showing the front/back and both sides would of course be required, but it could potentially be a problem when submitting for approval.  What I mean by that is just how much detail would be enough to pass?  Just similar paint chips/scuffs in general, or down to the most intricate nuance?

 

Could someone be failed if they missed a tiny chip (1) or the paint finish wasn't worn down enough (2)?  What if the ears weren't trimmed the exact same as the reference image used? (etc.)

 

      

 

I honestly don't want to cause a controversy and I really don't have an issue with creating a Level 4 (I think it may be cool) but IMO any guidelines would need to be voted on and set in black and white in detail so that there is no room for subjectivity/ambiguity.  We all have opinions.  What I see as "Meh, it looks fine to me" could be seen by someone else as "Are you kidding, that's not even close"!  Nailing down the precise wording for a prospective CRL for this could be a drawn out affair.  Those have been around and participated in CRL change discussions know that they can get a bit heated at times and not everyone will be happy, but that's how it works.  Give and take.

 

 Apologies if this has already been pointed out... I'm barely through my first cup of coffee this morning... As an example of the "unique details" for a higher level of accuracy, if you dig into the MEPD SWAT CRLs, they even go as far as having things like the correct runs/drips in the paint, etc. It's truly amazing and mind-boggling at the same time.
 While I fully appreciate & applaud this level of commitment & detail, I'm much more of a fan of a build that has been done to a level of detail worthy of the armor, but still something that is more functional than it is a work of art.

[wp1945]

10 hours ago, justjoseph63 said:

Nailing down the precise wording for a prospective CRL for this could be a drawn out affair.

After your post I am starting to see how difficult a "Level 4" screen accuracy would be to achieve as well as grade. It's probably not practical at the end of the day and I think keeping Level 3 as the highest is the best plan. With that said I probably will still make some minor adjustments to my armor after Level 3 as others have done. I'm just an overzealous newby so pay me no mind haha

[Sweatshop]

22 minutes ago, wp1945 said:

After your post I am starting to see how difficult a "Level 4" screen accuracy would be to achieve as well as grade. It's probably not practical at the end of the day and I think keeping Level 3 as the highest is the best plan. With that said I probably will still make some minor adjustments to my armor after Level 3 as others have done. I'm just an overzealous newby so pay me no mind haha

Going back to your initial posts about wanting a bit of weathering as it is scene on screen. I think aiming for “level 4” accuracy shouldn’t get you docked points if it’s outside the CRL but you did it based off screen used with evidence given to the judge. A level higher in accuracy shouldn’t put you in level 2 because “that’s the rules”. Maybe “Level 4” is just an appeal process to not get dinged on Level 3 admissions. Shouldn’t get a F, for passing the test AND doing extra credit. I get that the extra credit could be done after passing level 3, which seems to be recommended often. But I think that would discourage documentation of those additions in the application process, additions that benefit the community.

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

17 hours ago, themaninthesuitcase said:

The problem with basing it on a single trooper is you would need to do so as they are on screen.  If you base it on say that image above, how much of that was from 1976 and how much of that is it's 47 years old?

 

Exactly.  Who knows what mild tortures the ones seen above went through post production.  Even with a Blu-ray copy of ANH, finding detailed front, back and sides photos of a particular helmet/set of armor using screen grabs would be a tall order indeed.

 

If you wanted level 4 I'd be more going down the route of bra hook shins and the bent wire for the chest attachments. Though that's prop replication at a functional level which is never what we've been aiming for, though I believe MEPD do.

 

With ya' there.  I'm all for accuracy, and while I truly admire those who use the hooks on the shins and wire for attachments I find it much easier to use Velcro and snaps/elastic connections.  No one sees inside anyway.  

 

FWIW a lot of us do have weathered armour, after a few troops you end up more like Tontine IV than the Death Star.  Some people polish this off, others let it build up  (like me)

 

The dings and scuffs on my Hero armor are from the trash compactor, and definitely not the time I tripped during a Christmas parade.  That's my story and I'm standing by it.

 

[Sly11[Admin]]

There were also a lot less sets of armour dressed as Sandtroopers compared to the vast array of Stormtroopers. Looking a little broader, it also affects more than one movie and a couple of scenes, there are many more variations and possibilities which starts to diminish the ideal of a large army of identical, clean and crisp TK's like seen on the Death Star.

We have more members who want that look and polish their armour frequently. In their minds, every troop is a parade.

 

I have posted on several occasions about the viability of a level 4 possibility, but those conversations have never gone far, and part of that could well be because of what I just said above. Too many possibilities might make for a lot of work, and unless there is enough dedication and motivation from more than a couple of members, it just doesn't move forward.

We have never been about prop replication, but do note, after approval and even after centurion, you own the armour. I have seen troopers not just in my garrison but across the world who then go on to modify their armour not just for look but also better comfort.

 

There are more calls for dumbing down our CRL's rather than amping them up to higher levels of difficulty, not to forget lvl 2 and 3 are totally optional and have no effect on base 501st admission and approval.

 

Edited January 7 by Sly11
Edited for gramatical mistake.