Deployment Standards - ANH - Beta 2

[Daetrin[Admin]]

I've taken the feedback and here is the list that I'd like to propose for our detachment:

 

These items seem pretty firm:

1. ANH style armor. This means the following details are observed:

* Correctly colored buttons, not black ones, on the ab plate.

* Floating kidney and butt plates

* Canvas belt

* No side gaps between ab/kidney plates

 

2. ANH style helmet

* Grey painted frown

* Blue tube stripes

* Grey traps / teardrops

* Conform to either Hero or Stunt options

 

Hero Option

* Bubble smoke lenses

* Six cut teeth (3 / side)

 

Stunt Option

* Flat green lenses

* Eight cut teeth (4 / side)

 

3. ANH style E-11 (as opposed to ROTJ)

 

The rest seems less firm:

5. ANH sized helmet - no FX

6. Holster must not be looped through belt - will be attached from behind instead.

 

Comments?

[Boozel]

everything is firm, except I think the holster would take even more priority over the canvas belt.

Reason being, even to the average viewer, you can plainly see the holster is not looped over, bt attached behind.

With the canvas belt, it would take serious viewers to see what it was made of.

I know there was and still are troopers who have no clue what type of material it is, but most know about the holster.

my $.02

other than that, SOLID!! . I think this is a great list for troopers to referance.

 

Boozel

[Butah Fett]

What's sad is as much I plan to do more mods to my armor to make it more accurate, being claustophobic makes getting a smaller helmet almost impossible.

 

How is one to go about closing the gap between the ab and kidney plates? I'd like to see some detail on that.

 

Otherwise, everything else seems okay.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

For AP & TE2, the sides should butt up unless you need to add a shim. For FX, you will definitely need to add side shim panels. There was actually a trooper selling them on Ebay for awhile.

 

The original suggestion was to exclude FX armor entirely, but it would seem to me that if someone can mod the FX to ANH standards it should be acceptable.

 

Regarding helmets, I know of at least one large trooper who got his TE2 to fit, so it can be done though I believe it involves trimming a little material from the bottom edge. It seems unfair I know, but the truth is that the FX is so obviously inaccurate I don't see how it can fly as being part of a higher standard.

 

Remember these are not 501st TK requirements, these are purely for deployment status.

[Butah Fett]

All valid points, but my point wasn't about my head size, but the fact that I get claustophobic and it took some time to adjust to my FX bucket. Anything smaller would just trip me out.

 

But yeah, I'm cool with the standards.

[TK8280]

What's sad is as much I plan to do more mods to my armor to make it more accurate, being claustophobic makes getting a smaller helmet almost impossible.

 

How is one to go about closing the gap between the ab and kidney plates? I'd like to see some detail on that.

 

Otherwise, everything else seems okay.

 

Hey Butah,

My buddy uses some white cut up bucket pieces, you know the thick plastic pails you see at construction sites...I thought it was a good idea

[Daetrin[Admin]]

OK, there have been three items that I'm hearing (also via PM) that have been objected to:

 

1. Split back plate into butt and kidney plates

Argument against: MEPD doesn't require this and they're 100% ANH based. Why should we? It may seem elitist. It's not a critical detail.

 

Argument for: This is a costume detail that's true of ANH & ESB but not ROTJ. The separation of kidney and butt pieces is clearly seen. It's already part of most (all?) ANH armor, so it's really only a mod for FX suits. It's also a commitment bar to reach, analogous to cutting into the ab plate to covert from TK to TD ab.

 

2. Closed sides

Argument against: see item #1 above. Might be hard for larger troops to achieve.

Argument for: again, this is a costume detail clearly seen in the films. People have been modding their FX armor to get this effect already, so it's not an unknown mod. Again, for most troopers this is how ANH (not sure if all, but most) armor comes, so it's only a mod for FX troops. Actually like the kidney above, it can be a pride point of craft and is a high quality bar to hit, which is part of the point of a deployment standard.

 

 

3. No FX helmets

Argument against: for larger folks, the FX can actually look proportionate. Some people's heads are just too big for ANH helmets. Also, this is not an MEPD requirement. Also, it opens the argument for banning other helmet types, e.g. why not ban RT?

 

Argument for: it's really hard to make a "proportional" rule. It's perhaps the single most common upgrade to an FX suit, and it's one of the most visible details that people criticize in FX.

 

OK, comments?

[TK8280]

I think that is allot of great information and analysis it has definitely helped me to ponder the "what if's" of the storm trooper armor options

ITS MAKING MY HEAD HURT!!! I hate being obsessed with authenticity, accuracy, and canon

[Daetrin[Admin]]

As you can see I completed the "2nd round" of the deployment standards for all suits. The more I wrote, the more I realized that throughout the the 501st in terms of standards we really try to stay away from mentioning specific suit makers and super fine detail.

 

I think for this reason the item about banning FX helmets outright, or mentioning any costume maker or style in particular, is beyond the scope of what a deployment standard should be.

 

Unless there is argument otherwise, it will be dropped from the proposal.

[TD2802[501st]]

That the OT armor was designed for moderately tall and trim stuntmen is well known. However the spectrum of fan body types is obviously much wider thereby requiring an inversion of the 'mold fitting the cast' in order to meet accuracy-based deployment standards.

Two issues really: the armor's external appearance vs. internal construction.

 

The challenge then is modding for utilitarian comfort without skimping on accuracy. However the fact that a lot of armor makes out there are pretty uniform means some troopers will need to shim while others don't. Some prefer lower lumbar flexibility and separate the butt and kidney plates while others don't. So its impossible to be 100% dead on unless the armor fairy magically custom sized and scaled each person's armor according to their measurements. We can only approximate to a reasonable level accuracy but it shouldn't mean at the risk of personal comfort. Remember, we're also striving for durability since most of us will be wearing our suits far longer than any of the scenes shot in the OT.

[TK8280]

As you can see I completed the "2nd round" of the deployment standards for all suits. The more I wrote, the more I realized that throughout the the 501st in terms of standards we really try to stay away from mentioning specific suit makers and super fine detail.

 

I think for this reason the item about banning FX helmets outright, or mentioning any costume maker or style in particular, is beyond the scope of what a deployment standard should be.

 

Unless there is argument otherwise, it will be dropped from the proposal.

You do have a valid concern here...and remember that it is kind of hard to place the authenticity of a set of armor, when everyone has different body types and head circumference...Because I believe that if you omit certain armor makes and styles, that is just as good as saying...in order to be a canon ANH stormtrooper, you have to be 5/10" to 5/11" standing, and weigh 140 - 185 pounds, where is the Canon authenticity line drawn? Because I believe that there are many of us who stride for perfection of our armor, but what about the person wearing it? I personally fit the profile and the conditioning of an ANH trooper, but it doesn't mean that my ANH Storm Trooper is a better representation of yours because I am in the athletic shape of a stormtrooper, or does it? this is what I am talking about...there are allot of grey areas that can't be filled no matter how hard we try...Just my .02 cents

[TK 2011[501st]]

What about the holster not being looped around the belt? How is it going to be worn?

[Butah Fett]

Rivotted to the inside of the belt, if I recall correctly.

[TK4999[TK]]

As you can see I completed the "2nd round" of the deployment standards for all suits. The more I wrote, the more I realized that throughout the the 501st in terms of standards we really try to stay away from mentioning specific suit makers and super fine detail.

 

This response may be too late to make a difference, but I wanted to weigh in anyway. Both TK2802 and TK8020 make good points about body types. I for one, being 6'6," would look out of proportion with a smaller helmet. So I need to wear it (besides having a big head anyway), due to my body type. Also the durability point is important to consider for those of us who really plan serious duty in the armor. I appreciate the willingness to consider these things as the standards are finalized.

[Boozel]

Are these now set?

I would like to get my new armor set up to get deployment status

Boozel

[TK8280]

OK, there have been three items that I'm hearing (also via PM) that have been objected to:

 

1. Split back plate into butt and kidney plates

Argument against: MEPD doesn't require this and they're 100% ANH based. Why should we? It may seem elitist. It's not a critical detail.

 

Argument for: This is a costume detail that's true of ANH & ESB but not ROTJ. The separation of kidney and butt pieces is clearly seen. It's already part of most (all?) ANH armor, so it's really only a mod for FX suits. It's also a commitment bar to reach, analogous to cutting into the ab plate to covert from TK to TD ab.

 

2. Closed sides

Argument against: see item #1 above. Might be hard for larger troops to achieve.

Argument for: again, this is a costume detail clearly seen in the films. People have been modding their FX armor to get this effect already, so it's not an unknown mod. Again, for most troopers this is how ANH (not sure if all, but most) armor comes, so it's only a mod for FX troops. Actually like the kidney above, it can be a pride point of craft and is a high quality bar to hit, which is part of the point of a deployment standard.

3. No FX helmets

Argument against: for larger folks, the FX can actually look proportionate. Some people's heads are just too big for ANH helmets. Also, this is not an MEPD requirement. Also, it opens the argument for banning other helmet types, e.g. why not ban RT?

 

Argument for: it's really hard to make a "proportional" rule. It's perhaps the single most common upgrade to an FX suit, and it's one of the most visible details that people criticize in FX.

 

OK, comments?

I realistically think these are good arguments and really are gray areas that will never be ruled upon, you can't help the way someone is built in the long run, just my opinion

 

Are these now set?

I would like to get my new armor set up to get deployment status

Boozel

 

I think you should do your armor up as to how it looks on you, if it looks good according to your body type then do it, if it doesn't then mod it so it does, just a thought

[Daetrin[Admin]]

We're (command team) working on the final draft now as we want to include visual references to dispel any confusion as to what the text means. The ANH proposal will 100% be up for voting by the end of the month, with the ESB & ROTJ versions to follow, both to be completed by the end of February.

[SuperTrooper]

I know it's kinds late in the process to be posting ideas but here I go.

 

After watching all the TK scenes of ANH in slow motion recently to look for some details, I noticed a few troopers had small gaps in their sides, 1/2 inch inch or less.

 

Also I believe Paul posted that he saw some folks at the Rose Parade that had leather belts. I know canvas is screen accurate, but I think leather looks really good also. Has there been any discuession about leather?

 

And I personally like the idea of the holster being attached to the belt from behind.

 

Just my 2 cents

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Regarding side gaps - it would be good to decide as a group whether that was intentional or not. I suspect not - there were many other goofs in the film (missing tube stripes, etc).

 

For belts, this will ultimately be up to the membership to decide. My personal feeling is for canvas or canvas covered belt. I have a leather and love it, but if the purpose of deployment standards is to be film accurate, than that's what I'd think we should go with.

[Boozel]

Well, pretty much everything metioned on the list is what I am doing.

closed sides, ANH helmet, ab buttons color, split butt plate, canvas belt, ect.

When the armor is done, I am hoping nothing else majoe will be added to the list so I can just apply for deployment status.

Boozel

[Butah Fett]

Stick to what's been discussed in this and other threads and you're on the right track. I don't think we'll be adding anything crazy in the next couple days.

[TK-2833[501st]]

Something I put in the ESB Beta 2 thread that's sort of gone unnoticed. Hovi Mic-tips? I don't think you should have the faucet tips and be deployable.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Gotcha covered Jason - it's certainly going to be in the proposal. No reason not to when they are readily available from two very good sources, the cost is relatively minimal, and the installation is easy.

[Boozel]

thanks Butah, I will follow it.

yeah, mic tips are done, mine are with speakers.

Boozel