TK-4510

I didnt include TM because his armor is not the armor we are discussing here. We are only discussing the armor that has evolved from the original ROTJ armor on the first page. If TM's armor included some part of the TE, GF, AP, Gino stuff then yeah, I woulda brought that in too. Some say that TM recast the face for his, but in my opinion and many others that is not true.

OK, I am not getting this. So TE originally recast the ROTJ armor. Then let GF borrow a pull to start making "better" armor. That didnt work out so Te continued to make armor with his slightly modified molds. Did he ever sell his molds to anyone else besides Guns? Did you (Gino), buy the entire set of molds with Dave and then just end up returning the face and back cap? I am not clear on who has the real set of first molds. Gino you say you have them. did you guys buy them from Matt? I must have missed or misunderstood something along the way. I understand the helmet mold history not the armor though.

Well I guess we will never really know what happened. But we have established the lineage of TE, TE2, GF, and AP,oh and Gino. Its all basically the same molds that have been slightly modified. Judging by the original pics, no current armor is very accurate to the original. All of them have been heavily modified to even resemble an ANH set. They would be admittedly very ugly if they werent modified. So there we have it. Anything else here is just scatter brained opinions from people who will never agree. Then there is the AA armor which is a recast again modified. And the Movie FX recast and again modified. The RT-MOD fan sculpt with recasted face. I think thats about as far as the ANH armor has gone right?

The only person who should be selling TE armor is Guns, he paid enough for the molds. But, I guess the armor has been sold to how many people now? So maybe its fair game? public property?

Back off, jez's site rocks. Its not biased, he made a mistake and you wont let him forget it. That site is what introduced me to the different makers and the options available or I would have bought an FX instead of the RT-MOD I originally bought. You might also like to know that its being updated by alot of individuals and soon it will be a collective of information that Jez did not produce alone. AND ITS FREE!!! Oh, yeah....bye Matt, you dont have to leave. We liked having you around.

Sooooooo, I guess those are the right pics? Thanks for setting things straight Dan.

Now I am NOT completely sure these are the original armor pics, BUT the website even named Matt as the owner and was last updated in like 97'. I am pretty sure these are the correct ones as they are missing all the right parts. As you can see they had to be resculpted ALOT to get what we have today. If I am wrong here someone correct me, but I am pretty sure these are it. --------------

See you when you get back You cant stay away:)

Matt was the one who got ahold of the ROTJ armor and recast it. That was around 1996 from what I have read. I always thought that Matt sold a recast of the molds to GF who reworked them and then GF either became AP, or sold those molds to AP. I have never been able to figure that part out. During all this its apparent that Matt let Gino get ahold of the original molds or sold them to him. The history from there is pretty hard to hammer out. Matt has not denied that Gino has the original molds of the armor as far as I can tell. I think that Guns now has the molds for the bumpy cap n back and faceplate. I am not sure if the TE2 armor is recast from the original TE molds or if they in fact are the original molds. I doubt that they are THE original molds for the TE armor. Its obvious that the missing parts have been substituted with other trooper parts that have been established as being tour suit stuff. I have some old pictures that I found online of the (I think) original armor. I went through pages and pages of google and found an old site that was full of holes. BUT, the link to matts armor still worked and the pics were there. I will post those if nobody objects. You will be surprised to say the least. This will be fun. In the end we will probably NOT know the truth between Matt and Gino, but I love these threads. There's nothing better that talking about ST armor

Yes, I would have to agree with you about Gino's pricing. He does great work, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut I cant see anyone with good sense spending that kinda money for a "mask" heeeheee. It does rival yours in detail, no offense. He is great at painting and emulating the original. Using the thinner material is what gives them greater detail than yours. Its definitely a model though, not to be worn at any time. I wish that I could have bought an original bumpy cap n back TE when I had the chance. I almost bought one of your last sets of TE armor and helmet, but couldnt afford it. Hell, I still cant. But I WISH!!!!

The answer my friend is GREED. Prop builders/collectors buy originals and have already considered recasting them to sell. Those people who dont recast the original are the saints. But I think most of these guys are sinners. I can see why they would want to cash in on the SW legacy. But to get upset when someone else does it to them? You made your bed, now go lie in in. They created their own problem by stealing in the first place, see? Honor among thieves? What is this, Pirates of the caribbean? Thieves cant be trusted even among themselves as you can clearly see here... To comment on your closing statement.... There will never be a shortage of prop collectors looking to cash in on their investment and they will continue to steal from the originals to make money off of them. To think that everyone will stop offering up stolen recasts from originals because they are being recast is rather foolish in my opinion. After having said all that, I would like to tell Gino and Matt that I appreciate their contribution to our hobby. They are both very talented people and I think we all appreciate the lineage as much as they do. If it wasnt for Matt, we wouldnt have anything right now........See Matt, its all your fault!!!! LOL Just kidding...Thank you guys for bringing us closer to screen accuracy.

Jezz, I really dig your site. When I was looking for a set of armor I stumbled onto starwarshelmets.com and was amazed at all the detail and huge amount of photo's available. Hats off to you. Matt. I think you have done great things for the props community bringing these helmets and armor out for everyone. All I meant by my comment is that it is what it is. To me there is no gray area when it comes to recasting. Just because you bought it does not mean it was ever yours to recast. That is a myth that has been created by prop guys to make the recasting of originals a legit practice. Now, having said that.... Do I think that you are a bad person for recasting the original helmet? No I dont. Do you care? No you dont, and I am not trying to say that you are wrong or right. We needed a great helmet cause FX sucks, and you delivered. Now my opinion about you being recasted... EVERYONE GET THIER MARSHMELLOWS READY.....I dont see how you or any of the rest of the original trio can get upset that you are being recasted. Yes you spent money on the original, and SO did Lucas. The only reason that any of you guys are getting mad about being recasted is because its taking money away from you. Thats pretty clear. It has to be money, because its not about morals. If the helmets were worthless then you would have never gotten envolved in the first place I suspect. You would have MAYBE kept your original and locked it away somewhere safe. I dont think that its a bad thing that you have spent the last ten years cashing in on the molds, but you cant blame others for wanting to try it too. I think the only thing that keeps people from buying recasts is the quality usually sucks. in closing I guess I see no difference between you and anyone recasting you. To me its all good.

but....TE is a recast

I am sick of this crap too. If you are gonna retire, retire..Go away. If you are gonna proclaim yourself God of all accurate helmets and charge $X,XXX.XX for them then go away too... There are plenty of great helmets out there that look just as good if not better than yours. There are plenty of recasts that are half the price and look just as good too. Just go away.....and stay away for all I care. Your selfishness and ego's have made you look terrible to everyone. Do this fight in PM's not in public. Your reputations already suck enough.

Awesome!!! Good job so far!

yes I agree

AP's also have a template for the circle foam cut outs... Or at least mine did.

Looking really nice dude!! Nice holster!!!

Hey!!!! another spoon!!!!

Yeah, thats an AP. Did you get faucet heads for the mic tips wrapped in electrical tape to look black?? If so then its probabaly an AP kit. Plus didnt GF sign his??

Thanks! I like the MISFITS sticker in the background too!!!

Does anyone know what the cog on the backplate of the ST armor is/was made from? I am referring to the ANH armor and not FX

Where did you get that bag???

sharpened carrot!!!

I like the standard. I think we should be setting the bar higher. Otherwise we could just be 501st members. ( with all due respect) I mean look at MEPD.net. The standards there are higher than the 501st's. They do accept the FX for now, but I see that changing in the next couple of years. TM makes a great bucket that is larger than the other ANH helmets. Also the ANH2 is a good choice. There are many options for more accurate helmets popping up every day. Maybe a deadline like 2008 would give everyone enough time to come up to standard? I do agree that the bigger guys do need a bigger helmet. hmm. maybe make an exception for 6 ft or taller until a better option comes along?