TK-4510

Can we see them please? Are they unaltered? Please man, come on.

Matt, please post them here. I mean thats what this is all about! Your baby. You started all this. We want to archive the info so that we have a place for people to go when they are interested in finding out the history of the armor we all love today! The controversy is one thing and thats kinda cool in itself, but the armor history is most relevant here. Please, tell us how things came about.

As far as the TM hemlet goes. I havent held a TM in my hands so I dont know, but I have seen his progress pics. V1, V2, V3 etc.. I also think its his creation. Thats why he is not included in this thread as well. Obviously we have a confusing transaction that took place between Mike and Dave (Gino and Matts friends) It went bad and we were left with two seperate vendors of the "same" product. Nobody has answered my question though..... Where are the ROTJ armor parts that started it all? How where they obtained originally? Gino or Matt have any pics from back in the day?

Where did the current TE2 molds come from if Gino has the originals? Why didnt you have him send the molds back with the Cap n back and faceplate? If you had a back up set, then why didnt you have a back up set for the cap n back and face plate too?

So if you sold the molds to Dave, then where did you get a set? oops sorry. So if Mike sold the molds to Dave, where did TE armor come from?

Well, if Matt sold the molds to GF, and kept a set,...... then to Gino and kept a set,...... and then to Guns..... He probably still has a set still. Thats what Dan must be getting.....another set. If he in fact is planning to start selling the armor as Gino has claimed. I gotta admit, that right there kinda sounds bad. Leave the he said stuff out of the picture completeley and that just looks bad. That just looks like Matt ripped everyone off. So my question now is: Who has the old armor now? Its gotta be around somewhere. Does Brian R still own his helmet that started it all? Why didnt Dave M use his sharp helmet for a mold, was it just not possible?

Damnit. I cant stay up any longer. Peace out! I LOVE THIS THREAD, ITS THE BEST THING I HAVE READ IN MONTHS!!!!!! Please continue. I would love to see this debate cleared once and for all. I also think we should sticky this when all is said and done!

This can only mean that when Matt sold the original molds to Gino that he kept a set for himself. Would that be accurate then?

Sorry if that sounded rude. I just meant that this thread was for the TE armor origins. At least thats what it has become. I do love TM's armor and I hope to get a set some day

So what matt sold Gino was the original molds, but not the only molds. Then he sold the newer molds to Guns. That makes sense. I am not taking sides here, I dont favor anyone. Just trying for clarity So Gino has pretty much got the most un-messed with molds that Matt sold him and a set that he is still working on for ANH. Guns has the set that Matt sold him that he reworked with Dan in 2000 from recasts of his original set over the years. GF had the soft pull set that Matt sold him and he reworked to make and then sold to AP hmm.

I would like to get Guns in on this too, as I am a friend of his and this is rather alarming.

Well Joey, can Dan prove that the molds for the TE2 armor are in fact originals? Did they get ahold of the old armor again? Hey there's a good question....Who has the old and origianl ROTJ armor now? MAtt?!!!!! LOL!!! That would be too much.

So you STILL had the original armor to recast correctly in 2000? That would mean that there are to original recasts of the ROTJ armor then?

So, if Gino had the original armor molds since 1999, where did you get the molds to modify in 2000? did matt recast the originals before Mike sold them to Gino perhaps?

Well, I only have one pic of the Gino V2 armor that Gino posted on the MEPD a while back. If I can find it I will post it. Obviously its as close to the originals I posted earlier. I think its amazing how much work must have been involved in getting those old hunks of crap to look decent. Its really too bad that there doesnt seem to be any ANH armor in existence anywhere. This has been very educational gentleman. I want to thank you all for clearing the air on the provenance of the armor. This discussion raises more questions for me but its EXTRA EXTRA type stuff, not really important to the armor history. Gino, do you have any pics of the original molds or would you mind sharing any early pics of your progress. Same goes for Matt. Do you have any pics of the recasting that you guys did back in the day? That would be fun to see.

Two questions: What was the agreement that you guys had with matt that had you sending the stuff back to him? ( no wonder the cap n back broke ) Be very specific about what tells you that the TM is a resculpted recast. I dont wanna belive it, but I would like you to give hard core details. (you can PM me)

got it. So Matts a nut case.

Oh I think I get it now after doing a re-read. Gino and Dave bought the molds from TE back in 1999. They had an agreement which I dont know what it was. They sent back the face plate (modified) and cap n back to Matt. Matt recast another set of armor to get the TE armor and got some tour suit parts to make it a bit more balanced. He then sold those molds to Guns. That right? Guns has the original Cap n Back and faceplate that was modified by dave Gino has the un modified duplicates of the recast original cap n back and faceplate Gino has the original recast of the unmodified armor. That right?

I didnt include TM because his armor is not the armor we are discussing here. We are only discussing the armor that has evolved from the original ROTJ armor on the first page. If TM's armor included some part of the TE, GF, AP, Gino stuff then yeah, I woulda brought that in too. Some say that TM recast the face for his, but in my opinion and many others that is not true.

OK, I am not getting this. So TE originally recast the ROTJ armor. Then let GF borrow a pull to start making "better" armor. That didnt work out so Te continued to make armor with his slightly modified molds. Did he ever sell his molds to anyone else besides Guns? Did you (Gino), buy the entire set of molds with Dave and then just end up returning the face and back cap? I am not clear on who has the real set of first molds. Gino you say you have them. did you guys buy them from Matt? I must have missed or misunderstood something along the way. I understand the helmet mold history not the armor though.

Well I guess we will never really know what happened. But we have established the lineage of TE, TE2, GF, and AP,oh and Gino. Its all basically the same molds that have been slightly modified. Judging by the original pics, no current armor is very accurate to the original. All of them have been heavily modified to even resemble an ANH set. They would be admittedly very ugly if they werent modified. So there we have it. Anything else here is just scatter brained opinions from people who will never agree. Then there is the AA armor which is a recast again modified. And the Movie FX recast and again modified. The RT-MOD fan sculpt with recasted face. I think thats about as far as the ANH armor has gone right?

The only person who should be selling TE armor is Guns, he paid enough for the molds. But, I guess the armor has been sold to how many people now? So maybe its fair game? public property?

Back off, jez's site rocks. Its not biased, he made a mistake and you wont let him forget it. That site is what introduced me to the different makers and the options available or I would have bought an FX instead of the RT-MOD I originally bought. You might also like to know that its being updated by alot of individuals and soon it will be a collective of information that Jez did not produce alone. AND ITS FREE!!! Oh, yeah....bye Matt, you dont have to leave. We liked having you around.

Sooooooo, I guess those are the right pics? Thanks for setting things straight Dan.

Now I am NOT completely sure these are the original armor pics, BUT the website even named Matt as the owner and was last updated in like 97'. I am pretty sure these are the correct ones as they are missing all the right parts. As you can see they had to be resculpted ALOT to get what we have today. If I am wrong here someone correct me, but I am pretty sure these are it. --------------