Mark (Deployment) Standards Status Update

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Deployment standards can be found at http://www.whitearmor.net/requirements/.

 

Base standards: final & approved

ANH standards: final & approved

ESB standards: final and up for vote in March 2007

ROTJ standards: being finalized, up for vote in April 2007

[TK:TK]

The specs are great. Thank you for putting them together.

It occurred to me that there was no requirement for a neckseal (at least for the ANH standard). What's the opinion of the FISD?

[TK8280]

I believe that the neck seal is a given when thinking of a TK , kind of a hidded known requirement

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Yup, that's a mistake on the base standards. Since they're now approved it will need another poll to modify. Anything else - would be good to catch them all.

[Darth_Nickel]

On the ANH standards what are the approved helmet mods?

 

For example, I just cut my back decals to make vents. Does that impact Mark status? I thought I saw in the ROTJ standards it was specific that the traps were decals, but that's not stated for ANH.

 

I have another bucket that's not cut, but just asking for my "working" bucket.

[Darth_Nickel]

I believe that the neck seal is a given when thinking of a TK , kind of a hidded known requirement

 

A neck seal is a MUST have (IMO). I thought I also saw this question/topic posted for the entire legion (as a base requirement for admission). Did I just dream that or did anyone else see it (if so what happened to it?)

 

Point being, would we have to have a poll to add to the standards if it's a base requirement for the legion?

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Great question! In current form it would prevent you from getting Mark status. It's pretty clear looking at the screen caps that they are hand painted details.

 

Alas, one of the sacrifices for accuracy I'm afraid.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

A neck seal is a MUST have (IMO). I thought I also saw this question/topic posted for the entire legion (as a base requirement for admission). Did I just dream that or did anyone else see it (if so what happened to it?)

 

Point being, would we have to have a poll to add to the standards if it's a base requirement for the legion?

 

A poll was made and the amendment passed in the detachment member's section, and the requirements updated.

[Darth_Nickel]

A poll was made and the amendment passed in the detachment member's section, and the requirements updated.

 

:huh:2 days late and a dollar short.

[Darth_Nickel]

Great question! In current form it would prevent you from getting Mark status. It's pretty clear looking at the screen caps that they are hand painted details.

 

Alas, one of the sacrifices for accuracy I'm afraid.

 

So do we need to update the standards to refect that a full decal and/or hand painting trap and tears MUST be present? i.e not cut vents.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

So do we need to update the standards to refect that a full decal and/or hand painting trap and tears MUST be present? i.e not cut vents.

 

I thought about it some more, and believe you found a possible loophole. We don't explicitly state that they must be full decal or hand-painted, but it does seem implied. The cutting of the lines for venting has been uncommon enough a mod to be overlooked I think.

 

Before adding this as an amendment to the standards, I'd like to see more discussion on this. In the end it would go up for vote after all.

 

We (detachment staff) would certainly open a poll for changes to the standards should someone request one.

[bobby fletcher]

Hand painted & Decals are fine with me, Sometimes it is a major pain to paint the decals in just right. <_<

[Darth_Nickel]

I guess I question the vent lines if cut. I believe the originals were paint, so if decals are added what's the different with the cut lines? Would cut vents not actually look closer to "paint" due to texture? So long as they do not take away from the look of the helmet and are black lines (backed with black mesh). I think if we allow decals then we have to allow "other" methods.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Sorry if I opened a can of worms. I was just reviewing the standards to see what additional changes outside of the belt I needed to make.

 

On a second note, what's the approved amount of lines for the back traps? Or does it not matter? I've seen 9 and 11 (I thought I saw another one with fewer than 9, but I can't seem to find it again)

 

 

EDIT... Just found it. 5

 

So I've seen 5, 9, 11 lines. Is there an approved amount or does it not matter?

[TK8280]

I guess I question the vent lines if cut. I believe the originals were paint, so if decals are added what's the different with the cut lines? Would cut vents not actually look closer to "paint" due to texture? So long as they do not take away from the look of the helmet and are black lines (backed with black mesh). I think if we allow decals then we have to allow "other" methods.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Sorry if I opened a can of worms. I was just reviewing the standards to see what additional changes outside of the belt I needed to make.

 

On a second note, what's the approved amount of lines for the back traps? Or does it not matter? I've seen 9 and 11 (I thought I saw another one with fewer than 9, but I can't seem to find it again)

EDIT... Just found it. 5

 

So I've seen 5, 9, 11 lines. Is there an approved amount or does it not matter?

From my understanding , the specific canon movie standards are there for those of us who want to be 100% movie accurate...the "base" standards are pretty flexible, but the specific movie standards are pretty solid and cannot be messed with, if it is not canon then it wouldn't qualify as a specific style of armor if the actual guidelines are not followed...when you are trying to portray a specific ANH, ESB, or ROTJ..."if they would have had it, they would have used it" doesn't cut it... but that?s just my interpretation

[Darth_Nickel]

From my understanding , the specific canon movie standards are there for those of us who want to be 100% movie accurate...the "base" standards are pretty flexible, but the specific movie standards are pretty solid and cannot be messed with, if it is not canon then it wouldn't qualify as a specific style of armor if the actual guidelines are not followed...when you are trying to portray a specific ANH, ESB, or ROTJ..."if they would have had it, they would have used it" doesn't cut it... but that?s just my interpretation

 

So if they didn't have decals on the original ANH buckets, do we allow decals on the Mark standards? What I'm trying to say is if there were no actual decals on the original helmets, then are we already allowing a degree of "inaccuracy" to be acceptable? If so, how far does that degree stretch? Decals? Vents? Look? Feel? Intent?

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Yes, we do allow decals. Maybe some day in the future we won't. We also allow FX armor too for instance. The purpose is to try to raise the bar of the whole group, and not to get so specific that no one can achieve them.

 

It's also the reason why these details are voted on, rather than dictated. If someone is passionate about it we can always create an amendment poll, but IMHO we should let them rest for a while and focus on helping existing troopers achieve them should they desire.

 

There are over 1000 TK's in the Legion and over 100 TK's in this detachment, yet only two members with Mark status.

[Scott M.[TK]]

I will be submitting my pics for Mark IV status this weekend. Finally got the belt and blaster done!!

[TK8280]

I will be submitting my pics for Mark IV status this weekend. Finally got the belt and blaster done!!

 

Cool Scott, can't wait to see your pics

[Darth_Nickel]

Yes, we do allow decals. Maybe some day in the future we won't. We also allow FX armor too for instance. The purpose is to try to raise the bar of the whole group, and not to get so specific that no one can achieve them.

 

It's also the reason why these details are voted on, rather than dictated. If someone is passionate about it we can always create an amendment poll, but IMHO we should let them rest for a while and focus on helping existing troopers achieve them should they desire.

 

There are over 1000 TK's in the Legion and over 100 TK's in this detachment, yet only two members with Mark status.

 

I'm with yea Paul, don't get me wrong. I just thought it was a good discusion.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

oooh - yeah I guess my comment could come off harsh. Actually I think hand-painting for ANH is a great idea myself, but realize that sometimes it's best to take baby steps. Once we have 100 deployed TKs - then it's a good sign we need to raise the bar.

 

What do you guys say? 100 deployed TKs for our detachment as a goal

[Darth_Nickel]

oooh - yeah I guess my comment could come off harsh. Actually I think hand-painting for ANH is a great idea myself, but realize that sometimes it's best to take baby steps. Once we have 100 deployed TKs - then it's a good sign we need to raise the bar.

 

What do you guys say? 100 deployed TKs for our detachment as a goal

 

 

A great goal. I'm working on mine. I just ordered the belt, next is the holster. I also have another FX bucket that I was going to put together (I had it as a spare) for my Mark status (since I put vents in my normal bucket). I've since decided just to get a better helmet (such as a TE) to complete the task and wear on special occasions and canon events. I'll just use the spare FX bucket for my future TD.

[TK8280]

oooh - yeah I guess my comment could come off harsh. Actually I think hand-painting for ANH is a great idea myself, but realize that sometimes it's best to take baby steps. Once we have 100 deployed TKs - then it's a good sign we need to raise the bar.

 

What do you guys say? 100 deployed TKs for our detachment as a goal

 

It sounds like a GREAT goal!

[Scott M.[TK]]

OK, I am not sure if this is the correct spot, but I have a few suggestions (after my most recent debacle) regarding the Deployment standards.

 

As they sit today, 90% of the deployment standards are great, but they also leave way to much to interpretation. Here is how it was written in the proposal thread:

 

These items seem pretty firm:

1. ANH style armor. This means the following details are observed:

* Correctly colored buttons, not black ones, on the ab plate.

* Floating kidney and butt plates

* Canvas belt

* No side gaps between ab/kidney plates

 

2. ANH style helmet

* Grey painted frown

* Blue tube stripes

* Grey traps / teardrops

* Conform to either Hero or Stunt options

 

Hero Option

* Bubble smoke lenses

* Six cut teeth (3 / side)

 

Stunt Option

* Flat green lenses

* Eight cut teeth (4 / side)

 

Here are the issues I see that need to be addressed and updated:

 

* Floating kidney and butt plates This needs to be edited to include something like "The separation must be visible, and the separation must be below the belt line."

 

* Grey painted frown This also needs more clarification. Something like "Painted in to resemble the following example.." and provide a screen shot.

 

There have also been several comments and suggestions that are very detailed, but do not exist in the standards. If there are things to be added, like brow trim must be at lens level, and 3 bumps on ear caps, etc, let's get them in there. I for one would have rather known about it going in, rather than finding out one detail at a time.

 

Also, I think the detachment needs to determine (and specify) who makes the determination for status. Is this one person? Is it a group of people who vote? Right now, I have no idea, but two were given deployment status so far. One never showed on the thread, and the other was post #2. (I 100% believe these are awesome sets of armor, so please don't shoot me for just pointing the process out)

 

I have the utmost respect for everyone here, and Paul actually recommended I make these suggestion. The issue for me is the two points in the standard above are rather unspecific, and someone can do what they think is in line with the standard (like I did), only to find out later they are way off. I admit I have seen the films more than I can count, but I never spent that much time REALLY looking at the TK's. When I started to do this, I did not see the details I see now, so it really hurt me in the long run.

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

(and darn proud of it)

[Dargas[501st]]

Or maybe just take a resume of your campaign to get the markIV status and use it to exemplify the standarized process Scott!!!

 

I would like to know who takes the final determination on the Mark status too.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Just to clarify:

 

1) Things like three bumps instead of four are *not* part of the standard and thus don't have to be achieved.

 

2) Right now I'm the person doing the approval of Mark status. Ideally we would appoint someone else to be the "Deployment" officer, but when I last asked no one volunteered, so I'm it by default. I'm open to applications.

 

3) Both Chazz & Matt both submitted via the correct forum at http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/index.php?showforum=19, and both were vetted IOC with current standards.

 

4) Changing standards -> they've actually been amended, so it's not like it can't happen. It just requires someone to make the request and the detachment to approve via majority poll.