TK-421

[Eric]

this might be a repeat question, but.....

 

ok i have to ask. i've been getting all of my details slowly prepped for my soon to be application for EIB. just have a few small details to cover first... most of my studying came from movie clips and a little refferance to the EIB requirement list... the error (or at least i think it's one) that i noticed is that in order to have the commlink and grappling hook you have to have a hero suit. i'm prepped for a stunt. at least my helmet is, and that's the hardest to revert.

 

i know that while Luke is wearing the suit, it's a hero suit. but before he takes it (at least in my opinion) it is clearly a stunt trooper. flat lenses, three screws on the ears and (im not 100% sure on this but) the extra tooth is cut out in the helmet... it gets a little blurry when zooming that much on my PC, but i'm certain those are the details...

 

i could be wrong, but if i'm right... shouldn't there be a revision to the EIB requirements allowing the stunt troopers to have the grappling hook and commlink?

 

am i right or wrong? either way, i want to suit as stunt, and i really want the grappling hook and commlink.... can i do this? or am i misreading something?

 

please help

[Darth Voorhees[501st]]

i remember noticing this myself, but didnt want the grapling hook on my ANH EIB, so never thought to ask about it. I am curious though as to if this can be accepted as EIB, since to me as well, it is clear that the trooper has these details and a stunt helmet before Luke wears the suit.

[dashrazor]

it is pretty clear that it is a stunt with comlink and hook

 

IMHO i don't see why it shouldn't be acceptable as long as the details are correct. unless there is a good argument against it..

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Does anyone object? Just wondering if it's even worth voting on or if we should just change the CRL/EI based on that photograph alone?

[pandatrooper[TK]]

I think it should be an accepted version of the stunt TK for EIB. It's clearly in the original film.

 

But I think the current legion CRL should stand as is, and that the grappling hook be an accepted accessory (which it is). The TD can be swapped completely for a grappling hook and box.

 

The reason for the legion standards are to create consistency and to set a detail and quality bar. But I could see it being a unique EIB variation for those that are already 501st members wanting to apply for a specific EIB look.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Terry - I meant that according to the CRL the thermal detonator is a required element for the ANH Stunt, but the ANH Hero can opt to replace it with the combination of the grapling hook/comlink combo. If that is OK for the ANH Hero, should it not also be for the ANH Stunt?

 

Alternatively, and this is how I'd see it - we'd consider that screen cap to be simply a prop miss. It's clear that Mark Hamill is the only trooper to have this setup and he had a Hero helmet for every shot. It's only in this one shot that we see this combo on a stunt.

[pandatrooper[TK]]

Thanks for clarifying. I think yes - it should be acceptable as a TD replacement on the stunt. It's seen in the original film, as shown above. I don't think tons of people will rush to do this as most people still remember idealized or more commonly seen troopers.

 

Does this open up a can of worms that I'm not considering?

[john danter]

I think that TK outside the MF with the hook is there for continuity. Why he has a stunt lid on, who knows. Nice try by George though

 

I'd say it should be an acceptable replacement for each type of TK too

[Billhag]

Alternatively, and this is how I'd see it - we'd consider that screen cap to be simply a prop miss. It's clear that Mark Hamill is the only trooper to have this setup and he had a Hero helmet for every shot. It's only in this one shot that we see this combo on a stunt.

 

My personal opinion is that if we go down this route for EIB then you will

have to consider all other recognisable ‘quirky’ variants such as Mr. No-Stripes.

There is far more screen grab evidence for this costume example then for TK-421

but we just dismiss it as Paul eloquently put it as a ‘prop miss’

There are an handful of other known details that you could justifiably argue the

merit of being ‘Screen Accurate’, so do we throw these in to the mix as well?

 

 

[Eric]

there's also the screen cap from after the trooper goes into the millenium falcon and "luke" comes out when the line "TK421 why aren't you at your post" line comes along. that's also a stunt suit... if i'm not mistaken i think that might actually be a 3rd person in the "421" armor.... but still, there's that screen cap too. i dont know if that little bit makes a difference but just a thought.

 

i didn't mean to open a can of proverbial worms, just a question based off of an opinion of mine. i can see the argument where "Mr. No Stripes" should be amended if this does, but same time that IMHO that's an insignificant detail, kinda goes into the same category as when a few TK troopers are missing their ab plate buttons periodically... though i dont recall that in ANH just ESB.. but still. also other things here and there. the reason why i see the quirks differently is because the one or two troopers here and there with a detail "wrong" could be simply a form of "battle damage" where this isn't really something that'd go wrong during a blast fight...

 

i must say this is one of the oddest arguments i've ever started. haha

[Billhag]

See, I see Mr. No Stripes and all the other anomalies as the same thing….continuity

OK, we know why there had to be a trooper with a Grappling Hook and Comm’s unit

for Luke to overpower to get these items, over wise he couldn’t leap the void when the

bridge controls were shot out or call C3PO for help in trash compactor, yardaa-yardaa-yardaa

but I really don’t think for one minute that the average viewer at the time noticed that it was

a different helmet (or the cut down chest plate, back plate, etc…) when Luke is suddenly

donning this wonderful costume. I think its just another thing that slipped through the net

and Uncle George and the Boys didn’t in a million years think that anybody would notice.

The trouble is,……They never counted on the likes of US to spot and take in EVER minute detail

……the poor dears

 

If we want to talk Screen Grabs as justifiable evidence of one thing or other I could fill this thread

(as a good many others could) with a good few pages of brilliant examples of superb enduring quirks

that were also missed by the average humble viewer.

 

 

[89Batman[TK]]

Ultimately aren't we trying to acieive a uniform standard? Yes I am sure there are many variants we can all site but they are not EIB approvable in my opinion. Much as I would encourage anyone to push the boundries and challenge the norm I believe EIB has a set of standards and that is what you need to acheive in order to aquire this award. Just my two cents.

[john danter]

Billy is right...!

 

I often wonder about this myself. Yes it's continuity but it's clearly a mistake in terms of the lids. We can't have Mr No Stripes but we are starting to see Mr Flakey lid creeping up all the time. I don't like it myself. Shinny white we should be

 

Draw the line and that's where it stays. You're the skipper Paul, so it's your call.

 

I was in 2 minds about stunt and hero but maybe stick to hero, or simply don't allow us to have the 2. A TD and hook.

 

When my new armour arrives I'll be going for the short butted Luke look. SO if anyone knows of any good hooks out there. Please LMK

[dashrazor]

i guess i see this in a different light... i imagine that the grappling hook and com are standard equipment used by troopers.. ...it is also listed as standard utility belt tools in the official star wars visual dictionary .. i don't think it falls into the "prop miss" category.. JMHO

 

[Eric]

wait... who's Mr. FLakey? lol. i dont know that one off hand....

 

yeah billy, i bet nobody at the time would have been able to guess that there'd be a group of people that pick and pry at each detail of the movie. lol. nobody at the time probably cared to think too much into each detail down to how many ribs there were in the neck seal of which suits. haha

 

i'm starting to kind of see your point on a general basis, but same time, the trooper style only shows up once and happens to be both types. was lukes suit the anomaly? or was the one before him?

 

that's why i see it different than things like mr nostripes... because things like that were obvious anomalies...

[Eric]

i guess i see this in a different light... i imagine that the grappling hook and com are standard equipment used by troopers.. ...it is also listed as standard utility belt tools in the official star wars visual dictionary .. i don't think it falls into the "prop miss" category.. JMHO

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

and that's a great point. i dint even think of that. great pic :peace:i never did like frank.

[Billhag]

emmmm,.... using the Star Wars Visual Dictionary as 'dictate' or 'Golden Source' would be a VERY dangerous

thing to do <_<

It's not the belt set up that is the 'prop miss', its the style of helmet.We never see any other trooper in the

film with this set up so I think we can safely say that the whole purpose for it to be there was solely

for Luke to use in the later scenes.Other wise everyone would be shouting out "where the bloody hell did he

get that hook from?

[Daetrin[Admin]]

I'll chew on this for awhile then as the conversation gives much to think about. George himself was quoted as saying "Continuity is for cowards", so it's not like he really cares about such things.

 

BillHag: "It's not the belt set up that is the 'prop miss', its the style of helmet."

-- Yes, this was my meaning of my statement.

[john danter]

wait... who's Mr. FLakey? lol. i dont know that one off hand....

 

Mr Flakey is 'my' reference to the recent surge of HPDE lids with cracked, flaking paint jobs.

I think they look great on a mannequin or on a shelf but not for trooping at 501st events. (the majority anyway)

 

Some people will dig the attention, but others will just think you look like you can't paint.

I know that's how they were, but not as we were intended to see them on screen

 

Similar principle with the hook on the stunt lid

[Eric]

that's kinda what i thought. but wasnt very sure.

 

so for the time being, if i want the grappling hook and com, i need a hero helmet?

[dashrazor]

i was simply pointing out that it has references as being a standard piece of equipment for stormtroopers outside of the film canon.

 

as in the RPG and various other sources

 

and that outside of the film/prop community (EU) there is no stunt/hero armor. just stormtroopers

[Eric]

lol. great armor.

 

another question plausible of asking is, was the original TK the true suit, and maybe Luke took that suit and a helmet from another trooper for whatever reason.... like it fit him better or something. lol

[Billhag]

lol. great armor.

 

another question plausible of asking is, was the original TK the true suit, and maybe Luke took that suit and a helmet from another trooper for whatever reason.... like it fit him better or something. lol

 

Eric

I like your thinking mate, I can see it now.....

Luke:- "pssst!!,...trooper,....yes you,..would you mind awfully going back outside and

ask one of your shorter trooper chums to come in and search for us?....there's a good fellow"

 

[dashrazor]

[dashrazor]

another reference from The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology