Runnriottt Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 We are looking at a Bump that so far has been on 2 helmets. Ghost's and the one Gino has a picture of that is not willing to tell us who its from. Far from Damning. A bump. We are all nuts. I can imagine TM sitting at his molds laughing at this. Bro I hope you are. By by the way, the man can sculpt. Seen his pint sized trooper? Where did he recast that from? Look at the undercut. Look at the proportions. Look at the helmet. Man I am itching for a camera of good quality. Could he maybe have used the TE as a guide? Yes.. Why not? Oh yea, in some eyes that is recasting. Hogwash. He sculpted it. Blind faith on my part... might be. Ill have egg on my face if proven otherwise. I don't see it. I see a flame job on a man that has nothing tied to the originals save for a lot of hard work. To me its all about TM being called a Liar. That is not right. For what? Bragging rights? I guess I will remain one of the few that never get it. I guess I just play dress up to much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FON Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 No one's bragging - nor will they be. I'm shattered, as Paul is a great guy. Always willing to help me out with what ever I needed, as he had done so for alot of you guys. He helped me begin construction of my vac table, and his knowledge there is priceless. I couldn't have thought higher of him. However I would be a hipocrite if I supported recasting here, but cursed VT,CAP etc etc for the same deed. And you would be one of the first to call me so.. Even your "Bro's" know its not plausible.. But he does make a very good point about the TM helmet, theres no way he sculpted it, NO WAY! - CAP I highly doubt he sculpted it as well. Heavily modified, yes, but it's not an entire sculpt. So yeah, Gino has a point there - R2Dan For me it looks like a totally overcleaned rotj face tried to let it look as ANH. The angle of the tubes goes more in ROTJ direction than ANH I guess. - Vaj I do find it a bit hard to believe TM would sculpt in that small bump. - GundamZeppelin As it is now we're bickering pointlessly getting nowhere. Can we please keep to the evidence now? Either for, or against. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2Dan[TK] Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I said so on this forum as well. I still don't see why it has to be turned into this witch hunt, but again, the neverending recast argument shouldn't come up here yet another time - It won't get us nowhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf[501st] Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 GZ is right.I'm sorry rolf, some of the things you said hit me the wrong way and I let my emotions get the best of me. . Its ok buddy, i understand. Maybe my writing was a bit clumsy too, when i post the 99,9%. All i want to post, is that the GINO and TE helmets are both cast from screen used helmets. So they, are very a like to each other. I don´t know much about vacum forming, pulls etc. All i know is what i have seen, and read. To me the TM helmet, are not the same helmet as the e.g TE2 helmet. Here is a few things: 1. The mic tip holes, are smaller and more round a like. 2. The eyes are more round a like, in the shape. And do not have the same drop/shape over the left eye. 3. The nose, more round a like. 4. The side tupes, are shorter. 5. The tear drops smaller. 6. The grey areas in the ends of the bow, are higher etc... Don´t get me wrong GINO, i like to talk about helmets and suits. (do you still think the TM have recast a helmet, and then make some changes) Best regards. Rolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riveting Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I'm not sure requesting speculation is going to add anything informative to this thread, perhaps as FON suggested it would be best left to just facts & evidence now? Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GINO Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yes, I am quite certain the whole helmet was recast, then modified/cleaned up. TM has been making helmets for years based on these recasts so I would not be surprised to see variances between different styles or versions since the time he started. As far as his armor goes, I have to say that I have not taken enough time to examine it enough to tell if it started out as a recast that he modified as well. My first inclination is that it is scratch sculpt because it is so far off from the screen used in many places (in areas that the rotj armor is inherently still correct). Everyone knows my feelings about recasters. That's not what this whole thing is about. It is about keeping clear the lineage of fan made trooper stuff out there. I think it would go a long way if he were to come here and own up to it all. We all know he did it. I know he's been reading the thread here and on RPF. If he can't admit it now after all of this, I fear his honor and credibility amongst his peers will never regain itself. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf[501st] Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Thanks for your feed back GINO. I don´t have much, more to come up whit. So i will just follow, this topic. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 TM has been making helmets for years based on these recasts so I would not be surprised to see variances between different styles or versions since the time he started.. I was about to say that Rolf's lids do appear different at the bottom of the faceplate. I have overlayed the TM in a transparent blue to show the difference but tried to keep the eyes and frown aligned: (Hope it is ok Rolf to show your pics) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GINO Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Overlays are not reliable for comparisons such as this. Differences in assembly and photo angle etc.. cause to many variables to draw any conclusions. Has anyone gotten a response from Paul on this? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf[501st] Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Its all good Scott. Good computer work mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf[501st] Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I don´t know if people, can use these pictures. But here they are (old pictures from my harddisc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runnriottt Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yes, I am quite certain the whole helmet was recast, then modified/cleaned up. If he can't admit it now after all of this, I fear his honor and credibility amongst his peers will never regain itself. . And If you are wrong, yours is gone as well. I see this as a two way road. A man willing to share his knowledge and talent and one who is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDUEUNO Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Since Gino's helmets are recasted too, all this is even more ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDUEUNO Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 This is my TM: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runnriottt Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 TE2 VS TM Bad Camera, but a start. So far I see this... Ginos Mystery TM pic had the bump Ghosts has the bump No bump on 252 9135 TKDUEONO FBJ So if the bump was on there, how would he know to remove it? One thing I notice that is there is the tube kink. The TE2 does not have this. Nor the AP. This is suppost to be on the originals. Does your helmet have the kink Gino? JoeR started that discussion. His has it as well. The TM has the Tear Ovals. The TM is over all shorter than the TE. Its under bite is Far greater and this is not extended. Its part of the sculpt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runnriottt Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Now here is a stupid thought... The TE2 and Gino are Styrene. All these pics of the bump are glossy. This would point to Paint. The TM is ABS. No Paint required. Lets see an unpainted Gino/TE bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK069 Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 This is so heavy guys. I'm completey fumbdownded now. I thought that we all shared a love of something so great fom our childhoods and passed that on to the people around us. i know that there are issues with regards to costume snobbery but we put that aside at the UKG. Peace guys!!!!! PLEASE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDUEUNO Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 This is so heavy guys. I'm completey fumbdownded now. I thought that we all shared a love of something so great fom our childhoods and passed that on to the people around us. i know that there are issues with regards to costume snobbery but we put that aside at the UKG. Peace guys!!!!! PLEASE. I love AP, I love TE2, I love TM, I just can't stand Gino's fondamentalism and lack of intellectual honesty. And a lot of us do. TM, AP and TE2 are sharing their love and passion, Gino doesn't, so in my opinion is nothing but a bitter and prepared collector that has far too much faith in his knowledge. I judge people by what they can create and add to this world with humility and honesty, and I think a man is innocent until his presumed guilt is proven over every reasonable doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-4510[501st] Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 So Gino, whats your opinion then of DL?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GINO Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Some people are just thick. I said way earlier, some will remain unconvinced regardless. It is inevitable in situations like this. Whether the bump is there or not makes no difference. It WAS there on an earlier version. Perhaps it was removed when he did further clean up. I don't know. It's not important why anyway. If you can't tell it's the same face, there is no hope for you. Good thing you aren't builders because your props would suck. As far as me not contributing. The problem with most costumers is that to them, their measure of whether someone contributes, is if they are selling them stuff. What they don't realize is most of the knowledge you have or the pieces that you run around in were provided to you by people like me. Either directly or indirectly. The reason I don't sell stuff is because of douchbag recasters and their supporters. Why share it just so they can rip you off and recast your stuff. Screw em. Let them make do with whatever crap pieces they can get their hands on. The good stuff would be wasted on them anyway. They have no appreciation for it. As long as they look good for little kids right. This whole debacle is not about the measures of recasting, not about whether you agree with my perspective on the hobby, whether or not I think you are a douchbag or not (I probably do). It's about the FACT that TM lied about where his helmet came from and that does damage to the clarity of origins of fan made stuff in the public arena. Nothing you say is going to change that, so you might as well start accepting it. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDUEUNO Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 It's about the FACT that TM lied about where his helmet came from and that does damage to the clarity of origins of fan made stuff in the public arena. Nothing you say is going to change that, so you might as well start accepting it. . It's not a fact, it's your opinion. You're not a superior being enlightening us with your knowledge, you're a passionate and prepared collector that has too much faith in his experience and lacks intellectual honesty. Just ask me one question: if you think the good stuff would be wasted, and you're afraid of other people stealing your precious, you dislike the will to make childrens smile, why do you bother about the public arena? You know your stuff, you think you have the most screen accurate helmet on earth, just leave us alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GINO Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 See that's what makes this so frustrating. It IS fact. It's trying to explain, educate, prove, it to people like you that is practically a fool's errand. Yet I try anyway. Why? Because for every idiot out there, there is another guy quietly sitting at his computer thinking to himself, holy crap he's RIGHT. Superior being? No. Enlightening you with my knowledge? Absofrigginlutely yes. For years. More than probably anyone else in this hobby. Yes I have faith in my experience and knowledge because it is truth I've learned over many years of hardcore dedication and research people like you will never fully grasp. You know what? You're welcome. Intellectual honesty? What the hell are you talking about? What does that even mean? I call it like it is. Always have. Always will. Even when I KNOW it will make me unpopular with a lot of people. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDUEUNO Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 So: - if he lied and recasted from TE, we can say that the lineage is mantained, so you should be allright with it. - if he told the truth and he sculpted it, you aren't happy because something not accurate is going around the public arena. Which do you care most, lineage or lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GINO Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 It's not about me being alright with it. I don't care if he sells a million of them. It's about what is the truth. No more BSing about what it is. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDUEUNO Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 It's not about me being alright with it. I don't care if he sells a million of them. It's about what is the truth. No more BSing about what it is. . If you're doing this for the sake of truth, it's really futile because you ask us to believe something you saw with youe experienced eyes. Just like believing a girl who says she saw the Virgin Mary. You ask us a leap of faith: some will jump, some will not. The last word can only come from TM himself if he lied and confesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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