ObiHahn

For a second there, I was a bit creeped out thinking you typed all that just now...

Done. That was fast, Mathias...what did I trigger here? Not that I'm complaining.

(Please note that I tend to say "FX" a lot here but really mean "FX and AM", for I do not really consider them to be really different) Terrell, I do see where the "problem" comes from and how high up it goes, having been GML for my Garrison for some time, I know how hard it can be to be in the "pro accuracy" camp. Quality over quantity is mostly considered too "elitist" for what the 501st wants to achieve, and up to a certain point, I can totally see why. But shouldn't our detachment programs such as EIB and Centurion be something the detachment itself decides on, not Legion Command? Basic 501st membership CRLs, yeah...no debate here, that has to be decided by the powers that be. But the scenario is as follows: one ambitious guy becomes first FX Centurion. All FX guys think to themselves: " I can add a couple non-functional rivets and snaps to my old set, they don't even have to be the same size/type/colour like they were on screen!" And then, all of us become Centurions eventually. However nice and group-huggy that thought may be, it makes no sense to me if it's just superficial details that get added to a base costume that frankly did not age very well. FX will always be FX, there is no two way about that. For "not really accurate" base armor, there is basic 501st membership (including all the awesomeness that comes with that alone). For anyone who likes to take things to another level, there are detachment programs to encourage the community to more accuracy. While it sounds quite harsh to basically say "to really be more accurate, sell the FX and buy screen accurate stuff instead before adding all the really intricate and subtle details", that's what it boils down to for me. Any opinions would be much appreciated. Go ahead and bash me as unnecessary elitist if you need to, but it won't change the fact that accepting low-detail base costumes for what started as a high-detail costuming program is really, really inconsequent.

Thanks, Luis! And just to put it into context: this is the thread I was referring to. Should FX/AM be eligible for our highest standard badge? Basically, that's the core of my thread derailing. Sorry to put you into the "spotlight", Neil, it's just that you apparently happen to be the first FX Centurion applicant so far. No offense!

I agree, I forgot adding the "improvement" that AM is considered to be. It's all the same to me, FX-derived clunkyness. Proportions are not too well observed: it certainly was good enough back in the day and the Legion would not be where it stands today without our "working horse" that the FX is, but this is 2012, not 1997...all things need to die sometime and be put to sleep peacefully. But enough of me derailing Neil's application thread, for which I'd like to apologize - to be clear once more, I am not trying to personally attack or belittle any individual owner or builder of any set of armor for that matter, I am just referencing years and years of discussion about FX/AM and their place in today's 501st and our detachment. Would it perhaps be possible to move all this to another appropriate thread to make this a public debate, bobojuice?

This proves my point exactly: for a true level of higher achievement in accurate, detail-oriented TK costuming, the CRLs are in dire need of a re-write. Make EIB and especially Centurion stand out by excluding FX armor, simple as that. Only armor with clear screen lineage should be accepted, as "hard" as that may sound. The public accepted that the FX bobblehead bucket is cr@p... guys, the armor to go with that is cut from that same cloth, I still shake my head over hardly no one mentioning or acknowledging this fact... A LADA will not turn into a PORSCHE if you slap chrome PORSCHE hubcaps on it. There, I said it, crucify me. As it stands today, I don't really see a difference between what basic 501st approval requires and where Centurion will go if FX-style armor is allowed in the future.

While this looks to be quite a clean and skilled FX build in general and Neil is very enthusiastic about any demanded mods, I for one do not feel the FX style armor per se lends itself to being able to convey that screen accurate look Centurion was supposed to represent in the first place. No matter what modifications are done to FX armor, it will always remain way too clunky and disproportionate as opposed to form fitting and sleek like armor with real movie production lineage (or superior, well-observed fan sculpts like TM armor). This is by no means about excluding individuals but moreso about a trend I see to thoroughly water down what was supposed to be the highest achievable detachment standard. After years of discussion about FX armor not being an ideal choice even for basic 501st acceptance, I am a bit surprised that FX and recasts thereof are now seriously considered for the (as of now) highest quality representation of our stormtrooper costuming group. Just my humble personal opinion of course, but I feel it is important for me to point this out. If this is derailing this topic too much, please feel free to move this into a more appropriate section.

I'd go with no mesh at all. Screen accuracy is the way to go, guys. Isn't that what we're all trying to replicate here? Every time someone told me on a troop that they can see my mouth/face, I just said: "I can see your mouth/face too."

There is no doubt that you scored the be-all, end-all mannequin, Damian. I just did the math and calculated how much stuff to display on said manny 800 quid will buy me, and that's where I felt that a simple, cheap yet effective approach will definitely do the job for most.

Exactly that. And as mentioned, you will find quite a lot of good tutorials by using Google alone (search "duct tape mannequin"). I pretty much did it like Evilboy made his. The arms on mine are even somewhat poseable, and IMHO this approach sure beats shelling out huge sums on mannequins that a ) have more articulation than displaying a stormtrooper ever requires and b ) do not have your exact body measurements like a duct tape manny will. For characters other than stormtroopers, Fett or Vader (I'm thinking Spiderman, or superheroes in general), Damian's option is the way to go. For a mostly static "soldier at attention" display though, I say rather save your money.

If you like to have some money left after getting your mannequin, try the duct tape approach. It does the job, and only costs you labour and time rather than huge loads of money. Here's mine:

It sure does in a way, and thanks for taking the time for a detailed reply like that, Paul. I see where you are coming from, but still do not see why the Shadow/Blackhole stormies are not yet (or no longer?) part of this detachment. And building on this, I thought it made sense to question the decision to consider all the other "non all white" variants more of a stormtrooper than the historically way older EU concept of black TKs, instead of just: a) putting absolutely all TK based variants in one detachment or establish a new more consistent separation between, say: all movie style TKs and all EU TKs in all the colours of the rainbow plus black. It works for the Sith lords. But it was just a thought anyways.

That really interests me, and I hope I am not derailing this topic too much. Was that just a coincidental development or is there a thought process behind excluding one and including another variant of the same costume in this detachment? So many examples pop into my head: - The HWT is basically a clean, not very well observed sandtrooper, so why not put him with the MEPD? Right, because the MEPD focuses on movie versions only. - Paint the entire costume black and it is Spec Ops, but make it partially red, blue, grey and all that and it is still considered a FISD TK? - Why decide on mainly ROTJ for CRLs when it's basically just edge trim and ab buttons but the prominent khaki chipped ANH helmet plus ANH handguards are just as obvious an inspiration for most game renders? - Aren't video game graphics limitations just as valid a reason for adapting CRLs like movie costume amendments are? (I am not actually saying that someone needs to re-sculpt or 3D print those shoddy renders for a truly accurate game representation costume but you get my point.) Those are just some of the thoughts that have me scratching my head. That, and me being a movie TK purist. Daetrin, are you willing to shed some light on this?

If by those tells you mean "slap on reversed ab buttons, edge trim and bubble lenses", I agree - I read somewhere that Lucasfilm considers the ROTJ stormtrooper to be the definitive version (shame...). But other than those small similarities between EU and ROTJ TKs, I have yet to see a game render or any non-photo based material true to any movie version. Mostly it's all shoddy interpretation of the general concept "stormtrooper". But sorry, I digressed a bit. I'm just not a fan of the common community opinion that flashy EU trooper stuff resembles what I feel are stormtroopers as seen in the movies. I've been scratching my head for quite some time why all that expanded fantasy stuff has no own detachment, like they do for the Sith Lords (1 detachment for movie style, and then the whole other "Darth Whatevers" in another detachment). Isn't Spec Ops the place for the EU stuff, where the Shadow Trooper found a home? I never understood the reasoning behind putting a black TK in another detachment, but including the rainbow brigades in FISD. They are just as different from a real TK like the black version is, no? Why can't FISD just be what MEPD is for sandtroopers... just the movie versions of the TK? Explanation, gentlemen?

I was referring to the fact that I feel calling most video game renders "mainly ROTJ" is a very very loose interpretation, considering how sloppy and all over the place video game stormtroopers are. It's just a decision made by FISD and Legion to agree on ROTJ based armour for the whole Skittles EU trooper mess, that's what I am saying - a true and 100% accurate version of any video game trooper would require a whole new sculpt for each individual version, based on the actual 3D renders. To be honest, calling them "definitely ROTJ" or the like is just a "close enough" situation - and I am not criticising or nitpicking, just observing. At best, they all show certain superficial signs of some ROTJ details here or ANH details there (like the Hasbro figures) but are, in the end, just an amalgamation of what the general public thinks "a stormtrooper" looks like, ignoring all subtle tells of the different movie stormtrooper versions established in our community. Take screen derived ANH trooper armour, add some white edge trim, flip the abdomen button plates, paint the whole shebang blue in places and voilá: your "blue TK commander" looks just as much "ROTJ" as does the in-game model...

Since most EU trooper stuff is a bunch of wild and colourful fantasy stuff anyways, does it really matter? Hardly any comic artist takes the time to specify on ANH/ESB/ROTJ armour, no toy or statue maker gets the details right as of now, and game renders are all over the place as well. When it's armour not based on a movie, don't bother trying to match it to a specific movie style armour. Just my humble opinion. But I am not a fan of EU skittles troopers anyways, so...

"Hahn" is my last name, and during my time in the German military, I once held the rank "Obergefreiter", shortened to "OG". So it all started as "OG Hahn", which in German sounds somewhat like "Oh Geh Han" (with a G pronounced like in "great", not like in "general"). Of course I was already a full-on SW nerd back then, so comrades decided that my rank/name sounded much like "Obi Wan" and only ever called me "Obi Hahn Kenobi" after a couple days, and that name stuck. I simply dropped the "Kenobi" part and have been ObiHahn in all online boards since then.

Very cool exhibit. This should really also come to Europe.

That JediRobe one is so bad, words fail me to properly describe just how sucky it is. Yuck! That shop needs to be closed down for good. The full resin kit turned out good so far. Why glue the endcap when you can make it functional like on a real sterling though?

On your pic, the magazine endcap sits the wrong way around, btw. In the hole, there should be the round "nipple" thingy that keeps the endcap in the locked position. I'm a bit surprised it even fits on the other way round due to the slight taper of the magazine. On mine, it only fits the right way.

A question on the side: how'd it get so smokey if you're allergic? Febreze or something will probably not help, I guess. (Edit: nevermind, sorry) Some kind of strong alcoholic disinfectant perhaps?

Use a kind of liquid superglue instead, like Loctite or krazy glue. E-6000 will not do the job here since it's more akin to thicker hot glue when cured.

What he said. This is really impressive!

4 or even many more eyes see a lot more than 2, that's why I give honest feedback when I see something that I think is not up to specs so to speak. Not everyone takes honest criticism as constructive, which I never really got - I say let's all help each other be as accurate to the source material as we can be. My standard to judge by are the actual movie costume details and not so much the EIB/Centurion guidelines, because in my mind, those should be the same (at least for Centurion). But that's just me. It happens a lot that Hengstler positioning is all over the place. People seem to use other people's fan made blasters as reference instead of the real deal, I guess? Like a while back with that horrendous silver tape on the detonator pipe, that somehow found it's way into the collective belief of "accuracy". If 75% of TKs in the 501st have 'em, they must be right, no?

Congrats then! Blaster looks so much better with Hengstler re-positioned IMHO. And the vents and forearms are also greatly improved.