Darth Hilarious Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Just looking through the EIB/Centurion requirements- no mention of the ESB eye cut anywhere? I would have thought that it was an important distinguishing feature. Has this been suggested as an EI requirement in the past and rejected, or just overlooked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrazor Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 good question,, i dont think anyone has ever asked to make that detail a requirement as of yet. and i think it could be suggested (should have) for EIB and required for centurion in the future. but it would need to go to detachment vote it is a distinguishing detail to the ESB helmet and we will try to address that very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troopermaster Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 What is an ESB eye cut? Maybe you are thinking that they were cut out more in ESB? Well, that is untrue. ESB helmets are reused from ANH and to think they had the eyes cut out more is just an old wifes tale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrazor Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Paul is correct in the fact that ANH helmets have an inconsistency on how the eyes are trimmed, some more like in ESB and some less (depending on who was trimming them at the time) and they did re-use ANH helmets and armor in ESB. but from what it appears to be, they were more consistent (trimmed out more) in ESB. take a look at starwarshelmets.com Edited June 16, 2021 by gmrhodes13 link not working, removed gmrhodes13 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardiac[TK] Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Interesting history lesson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troopermaster Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I believe the ESB helmet with the patch on the back is this trooper on the right. Watch ANH to see it better and also note most of the troopers eyes are trimmed out quite a lot. Edited June 16, 2021 by gmrhodes13 photos updated gmrhodes13 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueTrooper[TK] Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 It looks to be in the eye of the beholder. ANH to me looks to have hit or miss when it comes to trimming of the eyes. But, if you look at the ANH eye reference pix that I posted (please see link) you can see a lot of material in some of the eye socket compared to most of the screen grabs from ESB. ANH eye reference link: http://forum.whitear...showtopic=16277 Some ESB: ESB promo: I feel that the ESB eyes are more consistent with the more open looking eye sockets. Which I feel is a consistent trait to the version of the ESB TK, just like the U-trim is to the ROTJ armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Hilarious Posted February 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 While I'd agree that the extra cutout around the eyes definitely appears in ANH, it obviously wasn't on every helmet in ANH. The BrianR and the DaveM helmets (which seem to be the most popular references for ANH styling) both have 'sleepy' eyes. As Dashrazor pointed out, there isn't a single reference anywhere of an ESB TK with 'sleepy' eyes. They all have the extra cutout. Whether this was done specifically in preperation for ESB or whether all the helmets used in ESB were already cut like this isn't what I'm concerned with here. I would actually agree that more ANH troops could have less sleepy eyes, but that's an entirely seperate matter (and it would be an option for them anyway, as there were eyes of both types in ANH). My point was that we shouldn't really be seeing any sleepy-eyed ESB TKs. No more, no less. Regarding the trooper outside the Millenium Falcon later becoming the 'badge' helmet, I'd tend to disagree upon closer inspection. Here's the badge helmet: Note the brow trim- it is quite close to the eyes at both outside edges, but curves up a little from above the right eye to the middle, like he's slightly raising an eyebrow. The eye trim sits about 1/8" above the corner of the right eye, and sits almost flush with the corner of the left eye. Here he is on-screen: You can really see how much it curves up from the corner to the middle in that shot. Now, your trooper: Doesn't have anywhere near that much curve on his brow trim. It sits higher above the corner of the right eye (if you actually count the pixels and do the scaling, it's 1/4"), and the brow trim is nowhere near the corner of this guy's left eye. If that was the same lid, the brow trim must have been almost falling off in ESB (and all those years since since). I'm curious- what is it that leads you to believe that this is the same helmet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troopermaster Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 All I am saying is that I don't believe any helmets in ESB had their eyes trimmed out when they were refurbished for filming. I totally agree that the majority of ESB helmets have big eyes and I think it is just a coincedence the helmets that were used were trimmed this way. The helmet on the right trooper looks to be the same as the ESB patch helmet to me. I realise the brow trim is not identicle but you must realise that there is a gap between the face and forehead so the brow can move freely. The assembly looks to be indenticle to me and that is why I think they are the same helmet. Just to be clear, I am refering to the trooper on the right as we are looking at the image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troopermaster Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Also, take a look at the helmets outside AA's workshop. See how large the eyes are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich330[TK] Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) In summary ... ... the helmets selected for filming ESB typically had full eye cuts without much "flashing". ... However, it is unlikely that this was the result of extra trimming. Many of the helmets were trimmed like this already for the original Star Wars film and it just happened (*) to be these helmets which were selected for ESB. Fair assessment? (*) I'd wager a guess though that the selection was in part deliberate based on the condition of the eyes, i.e. the rough-trimmed helmets with a lot of flashing were quite possibly regarded as less desirable and discarded. Who knows? Edited February 17, 2012 by Rick330 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Hilarious Posted February 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 All I am saying is that I don't believe any helmets in ESB had their eyes trimmed out when they were refurbished for filming. I totally agree that the majority of ESB helmets have big eyes and I think it is just a coincedence the helmets that were used were trimmed this way. Agreed totally. I tried looking for any reference from John Mollo about trimming the eyes, and I can't find any. I'm sure you've probably already been down that road anyways. The helmet on the right trooper looks to be the same as the ESB patch helmet to me. I realise the brow trim is not identicle but you must realise that there is a gap between the face and forehead so the brow can move freely. The assembly looks to be indenticle to me and that is why I think they are the same helmet. Just to be clear, I am refering to the trooper on the right as we are looking at the image. I realise you mean the trooper on our right. What features are you discerning from? I've tried comparing the ears, but can't find good angles to compare from. And yes, I looked at that picture of outside AA's workshop earlier today. There are far more wide-eyed faces than sleepy ones. @ Rich: Your summary is precisely what we've just said in a nutshell. So... Looks like a lot of ANH TKs out there need to trim their eyes a bit. What does this mean for ESB troops though? @ Paul: So aside from opening my eyes on ANH helmets (pun totally intended), did you have any personal thoughts on whether this should be an EI thang? Seems like everyone should be doing it, not just ESBs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueTrooper[TK] Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 In summary ... ... the helmets selected for filming ESB typically had full eye cuts without much "flashing". ... However, it is unlikely that this was the result of extra trimming. Many of the helmets were trimmed like this already for the original Star Wars film and it just happened (*) to be these helmets which were selected for ESB. Fair assessment? (*) I'd wager a guess though that the selection was in part deliberate based on the condition of the eyes, i.e. the rough-trimmed helmets with a lot of flashing were quite possibly regarded as less desirable and discarded. Who knows? In summary ... ... the helmets selected for filming ESB typically had full eye cuts without much "flashing". ... However, it is unlikely that this was the result of extra trimming. Many of the helmets were trimmed like this already for the original Star Wars film and it just happened (*) to be these helmets which were selected for ESB. Fair assessment? (*) I'd wager a guess though that the selection was in part deliberate based on the condition of the eyes, i.e. the rough-trimmed helmets with a lot of flashing were quite possibly regarded as less desirable and discarded. Who knows? + 1 But without a time machine, we will never know exactly what they did. I assume they tried to find the best looking helmets to re-use in ESB no matter if they had more flashing around the eyes (if they had many to choose from). But how about this, when they started re-doing the helmets (paint, decals, etc) they realized the eyes were not uniformed so, may be they re-trimmed the ones that needed to be trimmed to make them all more consistent with each other in EPV. . :smiley-sw013: :smiley-sw013: :smiley-sw013: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troopermaster Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 To be honest I don't think they had a choice on what helmets they used for ESB. Judging by the condition of the armour all taped together and no original gloves left they used what they had. I think the helmets just got a paint job and decals added, probably because a lot of the original paint had come off and they tried to spruce them up for filming. I think most ANH replica helmets would benefit from eyes trimmed out more. But like most things on the forums, people have a way of thinking that I don't agree with and usually don't listen when you tell them how it was done originally or they prefer it their way, so I really keep my nose out of most of the threads these days. It's a shame really because people are building their suits like other replicas which are wrong and everyone is like "awesome!" or "great job!" when really it isn't. But not everyone wants to be screen accurate and they do their thing, so good luck to them. Sorry if I have gone off the track a bit..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueTrooper[TK] Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 So aside from opening my eyes on ANH helmets (pun totally intended), did you have any personal thoughts on whether this should be an EI thang? Seems like everyone should be doing it, not just ESBs... Some of the pix of ANH like the pic of the TK lids/un-cut armor in front of AA shop is a B&W pic with shadows and you can't totally see the flashing in that pic. I wish they had HD cameras back then.... Jimmy if you look at the pix of ANH helmets from SWH.com you will see there are all different ways the flashing was trimmed. So you cannot say they everyone should be doing this for the ANH lid.. From what I have read books and mags and seen in SW docs. They where flying be the seat of their pants on the first movie with about everything, and just get it done no matter what. But when it can time for ESB they may have taken the time to make sure things where more consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrazor Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 this is a great topic, and should be addressed. i am opening a discussion in the Detachment Only section to see if this will warrant a change/vote in the ESB requirements the new thread is HERE also it is fun to speculate on the reason why the ESB eyes shared this detail, it is my theory they trimmed out the eyes for a more practical reason. simply so troopers could see better ANH vision impairment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Hilarious Posted February 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Jimmy if you look at the pix of ANH helmets from SWH.com you will see there are all different ways the flashing was trimmed. So you cannot say they everyone should be doing this for the ANH lid. Definitely. I wouldn't say that everyone should do it to their ANH lids, but it's certainly an option. I think I overstated my point. That said, just about every ANH TK I know personally has very sleepy eyes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sskunky Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 not sure why but I get a message saying I don't have permission to view this page when I click that link Mason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrazor Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 not sure why but I get a message saying I don't have permission to view this page when I click that link Mason? that link is for 501st detachment members only, as it pertains to a possible change to the Centurion program but feel free to add to this conversation.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 not sure why but I get a message saying I don't have permission to view this page when I click that link Mason? It's in the Detachment only section of the forums, Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sskunky Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I'm not worthy! So does that mean I can't access ROTJ sections that my armour sets the standards for? I was pretty much going to echo what Paul said anyway. So carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) I'm not worthy! So does that mean I can't access ROTJ sections that my armour sets the standards for? I was pretty much going to echo what Paul said anyway. So carry on. If you join 501st and get an approved TK you may. Btw, there is no specific ROTJ section in the detachment only area. So don't worry! Edited February 17, 2012 by Locitus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrazor Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I'm not worthy! So does that mean I can't access ROTJ sections that my armour sets the standards for? I was pretty much going to echo what Paul said anyway. So carry on. :laugh1: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sskunky Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 You guys crack me up. I will get clearance soon. I've just bought a pair of running trainers and bottoms so as soon as I shed the pounds I'll don a set and get clearance. On a more serious note. Why the hell is there no ROTJ section??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 On a more serious note. Why the hell is there no ROTJ section??? We used to have one. Then we held a vote and the unanimous result was to delete it to mess you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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