LittleOne Posted May 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 On 5/8/2011 at 8:40 AM, ABS80 said: I used vinyl stencil from Mike and not a single bleed, it's ideal to use a a airbrush or a spraycan, I only use spray method with stencil never a brush, you need to apply light coats and remove masking before paint cures. Here's what I did using Mikes vinyl stencils he custom made for me, it worked like a charm, it was time consuming and tricky to conform to the complex helmet shape, not for the beginner. Mark nice paint job Mark, I agree with a airbrush and experience you can paint almost anything with surgical precision... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandatrooper[TK] Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 The Krylon fixative has solvents that are melting the adhesive in the paint stencils. If you hand cut them and they aren't sharp clean cuts, and if the edges aren't pressed down, the solvent will leak underneath. The reason why airbrushing works better than brush paints or even spray cans is because the spray is finer and there can be a higher air to paint ratio. One trick to try if you don't have an airbrush: see if Testors or another hobby brand comes in the correct blue in the smaller spray cans. The can and nozzle for hobby spray cans are designed to have a finer spray for scale models, unlike Krylon or Rustoleum size which is meant for larger objects. The trick: immerse the can in warm water for a few mins. This will increase the pressure in the can which will result in a finer spray. Apply the template in place and mask off the entire helmet and paint the tube stripes with the smaller spray can. 2 coats with light passes should do. If this sounds like too much, just mask lines for the top and bottom and brush paint each stripe by hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABS80 Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 (edited) The Krylon fixative has solvents that are melting the adhesive in the paint stencils. If you hand cut them and they aren't sharp clean cuts, and if the edges aren't pressed down, the solvent will leak underneath. The reason why airbrushing works better than brush paints or even spray cans is because the spray is finer and there can be a higher air to paint ratio. One trick to try if you don't have an airbrush: see if Testors or another hobby brand comes in the correct blue in the smaller spray cans. The can and nozzle for hobby spray cans are designed to have a finer spray for scale models, unlike Krylon or Rustoleum size which is meant for larger objects. The trick: immerse the can in warm water for a few mins. This will increase the pressure in the can which will result in a finer spray. Apply the template in place and mask off the entire helmet and paint the tube stripes with the smaller spray can. 2 coats with light passes should do. If this sounds like too much, just mask lines for the top and bottom and brush paint each stripe by hand. Yes definetely the solvent is attacking your vinyl stencil. Mark Edited May 8, 2011 by ABS80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) the problem is that you're using spray paint. you need to use brush on humbrol colors for making tubestripes! the spray paint method was not used for making helmets in the first place... that's the main problem here. the whole concept requires hand brushing. too much paint equals bleed. airbrush concepts work because of the low volume of paint and the control over flow. Edited May 9, 2011 by TK Bondservnt 2392 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleOne Posted May 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) i think the tubestripes were silk screen according to star wars helmets.com the krylon attacks the vinyl if you spray too much on as i have discovered...the trick is too hold the can very far and barely spray it, but you still have to be careful of what on how you paint with your brush... i have looked this up and i have yet to figure out how they would have done this...the tubestripes look too perfect for being painted by hand, if you ask me.... the rest looks hand painted and organic...but the tubestripes have sort sort of trick to them.... right now i have tried at least 20 different tests and nothing is satisfactory.... what i am doing now is this... i am using mikes stencils as position reference for the details and shape of the tears and traps. i bought some airbrush frisket and am cutting away the details....and painting the rear trap lines one by one...it is gonna take a darn long time but it beats having to sand everything over and over... dont wanna dis on Mike's stencils and i think they are great but i also think that i have several problems at the moment. The stencil vinyl is too thick and it is preventing a good seal. Mike is actually sending me another set that are thinner so he can see if i have success or not. I think that the leak happens because of another factor...the krylon itself...it is a porous material even when dried up and not as hard as pure plastic so the humbrol might want to naturally travel against of soft surface if there is any sort of space between the stencil and the helmet. I am also inclined to say that the tac strength may not be strong enough so that the paint leaks under...i know that the frisket i have used is way more sticky. The stencils also are probably way better against a hard surface like the ABS helmets since the stencil adheres directly to the surface. and mike as painted a bunch of them and know how the stencils respond, he may be doing something i am not...but its all part of the game... I think that most people that got away with nice tubestripes with a painted helmet probably airbrush them on. i guess i ll keep on trucking....... cheers! Edited May 9, 2011 by LittleOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 some helmets were hand painted, some were decals. it depends upon which film you're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleOne Posted May 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 some helmets were hand painted, some were decals. it depends upon which film you're doing. trying for ANH....and i swear to god , it's gonna look like an ANH helmet when i am done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandatrooper[TK] Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 I believe ANH stripes were hand painted but with masking tape at the top and bottom. To me, this explains why the front facing corners are so sharp yet the spacing and thickness isnt (probably due to the brush and painters skill). I have used vinyl stencils on painted helmets just fine. Imo its more how you apply them. I tend to trim more of the vinyl off the edges so it curves to the surface better. But as stated, you're going to have a hard time if your stuck on using full size spray cans. Just hand paint them and save yourself the trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleOne Posted May 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) I believe ANH stripes were hand painted but with masking tape at the top and bottom. To me, this explains why the front facing corners are so sharp yet the spacing and thickness isnt (probably due to the brush and painters skill). I have used vinyl stencils on painted helmets just fine. Imo its more how you apply them. I tend to trim more of the vinyl off the edges so it curves to the surface better. But as stated, you're going to have a hard time if your stuck on using full size spray cans. Just hand paint them and save yourself the trouble. you know what panda...you gave me a good trick just there....i may yet use mike's stencil as a placement guide, i.e trace the tubes with a pencil then put some frisket at the top and bottom and then paint away... the frisket is great to stop the bleeding.... impressive. most impressive as one Darth would say...i ll pratice this on a plastic for sale sign, see how it turns out... i ll also test mike's new stencil when they arrive and let you all know... what are your thoughts on star wars helmet.com saying they were silk screened?.... cheers! Edited May 9, 2011 by LittleOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandatrooper[TK] Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 I personally do not think they were silk screened. The cheek tube is a compound curve and the distance from the valley is about 1/2". Thats not a lot of room to get a silk screen frame of that complexity in there. I've worked in the screen printing industry for years and I don't think the ANH tube stripes were silk screened. Thats my personal opinion. Look at all the helmets and they have slightly different spacing, thickness and number of stripes. The stripes would be the same spacing and thickness if they were screen printed and the various helmets stripes look quite different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-4510[TK] Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) Only the ESB and ROTJ decals were silkscreened and THEN applied to the helmets. ANH helmets were all hand painted without stencils and used only masking tape as a guide, which is why the are all so different. Wanted to say too....if you paint sparingly and away from the masking templates instead of into the masking templates you will find minimal leakage. Edited May 9, 2011 by TK-4510 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 hand painting the stencil with a brush right mike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-4510[TK] Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 lol, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleOne Posted May 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 I personally do not think they were silk screened. The cheek tube is a compound curve and the distance from the valley is about 1/2". Thats not a lot of room to get a silk screen frame of that complexity in there. I've worked in the screen printing industry for years and I don't think the ANH tube stripes were silk screened. Thats my personal opinion. Look at all the helmets and they have slightly different spacing, thickness and number of stripes. The stripes would be the same spacing and thickness if they were screen printed and the various helmets stripes look quite different. makes lot of sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleOne Posted May 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Only the ESB and ROTJ decals were silkscreened and THEN applied to the helmets. ANH helmets were all hand painted without stencils and used only masking tape as a guide, which is why the are all so different. Wanted to say too....if you paint sparingly and away from the masking templates instead of into the masking templates you will find minimal leakage. thanks for tip Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleOne Posted May 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2011 I actually had a extremely good painting night last night…I painted the traps stripes without too much problem. I went to the craft store and bought a line-detailer brush, very little tip and then went home. I used Mike’s stencils and traced where the lines would go, then I used one of those small foam brush thingy painter to make what they call a “maul stick†..yes i know what you are thinking Definition below: Maul stick definition using that piece of wood I let my paint brush glide against the stick which gave me a very good looking straight line. I had to practice a bit before to get the feel of how to do the lines but I was satisfied with the end result after a while and then repeated the process on the helmet. I then let everything dry up and then cleaned out the spills and bleeds that happened and I must say that I am impressed. The lines look straight but it looks like they have an organic feel to them as they are not super precise. I am inclined to say that a similar method may have been used on the helmets when they were made for the rear traps and tears. Using this technique you can achieve very precise lines when you need to. I allowed me to do the lines very quickly and don’t have to worry about nasty bleeds all over Mahl stick video to show you the concept of this. i did not do it exactly like the guy is doing it but the idea was the same... i glided my paintbrush on the side of the handle to make a straight line, the hard part is to keep the width of the line the same when you do them... cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleOne Posted May 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) i masked the parts that i had detailed and repainted the whole thing...now hopefully the clean up will go well with no undesirable effect, plus i added a few chips to make it look a little bit weathered.... Edited May 12, 2011 by LittleOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleOne Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) update: Mike sent me a new set of tube stripes stencils.. i tested them and had much more success. It seems Mike may have made his stencils more sticky and changed the thickness if i recall hsi words well...i also figured out that if you tap in the paint with the tip of your brush, you are less likely to have bad bleeds under the stencil, i gently tapped the paint in each tube and let the paint dry out for a bit....just make sure that you dont leave the stencil on for too long because they will leave some glue residue like it happened to me but i cleaned this up with thinner...id rather cleaned glue than paint... and it did not really affect the paint too much , much to my surprise.... i ll post some photos when my computer is up and running again... now that part is almost done. Edited May 17, 2011 by LittleOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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