Peregrinus

Brian and Andy... I got the TE2s with the intention of "truing them up" so they were balanced before the MR CE came out. I already spent the money, have them, and love them. I was already underway in the modding when the MR CE came out. There were options available for a symmetrical (or at least as nearly as we can do without CAD/CAM setups), but I wanted to start from a base as true to the original as possible (no TE v. GF debates here, please...). When the MR CE came out, it threw a spanner in the plan. I could get some of those and mod 'em to fix the errors, but then what would I do with the TE2s I already had in hand? I'm not such a slavish fan of screen-accuracy that I feel the need to reproduce the mistakes and shortcuts, too, for my costumes. I've already described my "more-accurate-than-the-film-version" costuming philosophy elsewhere on this and other boards -- and drawn both flak and praise for it. What this is boiling down to is whether I should continue with my original plan or abandon the TE2s and get some MR CEs to mod instead. What I love about the TE2 isn't its asymmetry -- it's the close lineage to the original prop. I wanted to start with something pretty much the right size and shape and go from there... And that's something I don't really know if I'd say the CE has. It has its own set of things that are "off" about the details. Too many things that are the wrong shape, even if just by a little. And if I do decide to switch to the CE, what do I do with the TE2s? I love them and don't want to resell them. I'd rather build them up and wear 'em. I apologize again for the whinging. I know this is my thread, and I'm making a pretty key choice here in how I go forward with these helmets, but it still probably isn't how you'd spend your time on here. I mainly need people to offer feedback and dissenting opinions, so I can clear up my own confusion. --Jonah

That doesn't surprise me. Problem is that the asymmetry means you can't just take half and mirror it. It needs to be reworked dynamically to preserve the overall look. That's why the CE's frown looks so off. I want to make this so one has to look two and a half times to be sure whether it's symmetrical or not, and not draw notice as being glaringly different when next to other TE2s. Heck, the frown tweak is a matter of an eighth of an inch, and that's the most easily-spotted alteration... And Paul, I like to say we're making 1:1 action figures. --Jonah

Mark, I do, in fact have one faceplate partially done. Chin cut off, teeth cut off, reworking the openings for the teeth in the upper and lower faceplate sections, tears cut out and ready for reworking... (quick one with my phone) And I want to cut up a TE2 so I can take one of the most accurate TK helmet recreations and use that as a starting point to fix the errors from the original sculpt -- basically doing on a personal scale what Master Replicas did with their MR CE (except with a finer eye to the details). This was planned before I even knew about the MRCE. It's not like I'd be cutting up an original prop. I can understand the reasoning behind wanting to not change anything, though, if one was working at replicating the look of said original film prop. It's just... A great many of the people who worked on Star Wars didn't "get it" and thought it would be only a marginal success -- if it didn't bomb outright. No one thought it would attract the attention and following it did. If they had, and if they'd had more time and money, I imagine (amongst other things) the sculptors would have taken a little more care in making sure things were even. There's some asymmetry in Vader's mask, and he's a major "face" character. They fixed that for Episode III. The stunt Stormtrooper helmet wasn't really ever meant to be seen close-up -- they were background heavies. Notice how they reworked the frown for the hero version. I can't imagine any military benefit to making Stormtroopers' helmets asymmetrical. Mostly just thinking out loud here (as it were). I'm going to have symmetrical, idealized helmets for my other costumes. I want one for this costume. I know it's an unpopular view with a good chunk of this community, but I don't find asymmetry characterful -- it just seems sloppy to me. If I have an unmodded, asymmetrical TE2, it would just be a display piece, a replica of the film prop to show off, and I don't really do that sort of thing with props and costumes. I'd want to wear it. I guess I posed the wrong question above: Should I abandon the TE2s and mod MR CEs; or continue with my original plan to mod the TE2s, even if it's a pain in the butt? The MR CEs would probably be easier to fix up, but the TE2 is a more accurate foundation to start from. My only problems with the stunt TK helmet are from below the goggles down and from the tube brackets forward -- brackets, tears, frown, cheeks and aerator shrouds. Everything else would be stock. *heh* Sorry for my lack of clarity on this. I'm still fumbling my way through the thought process, myself... --Jonah

Shortly after I originally posted this thread, the MR CE bucket came out and I faced some confusion. Been focussing on other costumes, most notably getting my TR ready to take with me to Dragon*Con. Spent a month on the other end of the continent. Now I'm re-settled at home and the dilemma remains... I have an MR CE bucket now, myself. I was originally thinking of using it as a guide to "symmetricalize" my TE2s. Now I'm not sure. Fixing the asymmetry of the screen-accurate buckets won't render them non-elite-eligible, but they will no longer be screen-accurate. That both does and does not bother me. On the one hand, I want something that looks like what was seen onscreen, and on the other I want to fix the little production shortcusts, rush-job screwups, and other things that make most movie costumes look like crap close up. It really bugs me that the frown is off-centre -- and asymmetrical, to boot. It really bugs me that the right and left aerator shrouds are sculpted entirely differently when you look at them. It really bugs me that the tube brackets on the ear pieces are completely different from one side to the other. See? On the one hand I could mod some MR CEs, and finish the TE2s screen-accurate -- warts'n'all. On the other, I could go with my plan to use the MR CE as a guide for idealizing the TE2s. I'm just looking for opinions here, nd don't feel like making it a poll... --Jonah

EDIT: Here's the 501st Stormtrooper production art that's findable in the game as a "holocron" (200 production images scattered through the levels). There's also a "Commander" who wears a Sandtrooper's orange pauldron, ammo packs, and backpack. To clarify the painting, the blue stripe up the forearms is along the raised ridge with the square holes in it. The inset in the backplate where the "O | |" is on a TK is still clone-styled, and is also painted blue, again as with the clone version. These guys are in the first mission, where you play as Vader, and which is set not too long after Episode III. Thus the clone-style elbow pieces and belt, in addition to the backplate. You can't see too well in these images, but they have clone shoes, too. Note also that the blaster is just stuck to his belt -- no holster. *cough* And you can see the helmet's going to take some serious customizing... So far this is all I have grabs of for here. I haven't gotten to anything other than regular white Stormtroopers, but I haven't had much time to play yet... --Jonah

Ah, No'l, there is a Biker Scout sniper. It's in the video games and several people have added the sniper rifle to their Scout costumes. Doesn't mean Stormtroopers can't be snipers, too, though. --Jonah

It would have been so easy for him to write his way out of that corner (without resorting to Ewoks). Wookiees being used as slave labour to construct the Death Stars (yes, two in that draft). Purposefully prevented from having access to any technological items to keep them under control. They're smart, so they fashion weapons anyway. Empire takes their children hostage to keep them in line. Rebels free Wookiee children, who then help defeat the Imperial presence on the moon. There ya go. Lucas gets to use little people, low tech wins over high tech, and we get our Wookiees. Many of my problems with Episodes VI, I, II, and III come back to him being a lazy writer. It's not what he wanted to do and it shows. --Jonah

Right. But the EVO Trooper and Jump Trooper are most definitely sculpted differently from a standard TK. Those should probably be TXes. --Jonah

FPdotC is now live again as FPdotN. --Jonah

Hey, Michael. FPdotC went down the day before I left for the East Coast, so I wasn't too able to dig into it at the time. Talked to Ang, and the problem is the site wasn't paid for so the host shut it down. She's in the process of trying to get it from the previous web manager, but they are being rather uncommunicative. If she hasn't succeeded soon, she's going to have to make it again from scratch. I've suggested that now might be a good time to bring FPdotC into the same message board managing umbrella that this board and several other Detachment boards are under. --Jonah

------------ Looks like right side goes outside of left. --Jonah

Taught English as a subject. --Jonah

Heck, remember when the Star Wars Saga was going to be three trilogies? Where's my Eps VII, VIII, and IX? Or when the first three were "From the Adventures of Obi-Wan Kenobi", and Anakin was just supposed to be a supporting character? --Jonah

Pictures of the different versions of TK. Here we have the Heavy Gunner -- DLT-19 and no E-11. Another will have the E-11 with holster. Another will have the E-11, grappling hook, and comlink, with no back cannister. And I'd say include the Vac-Trooper, too -- it's just a Stormtrooper with an airtank. --Jonah

My mom was an English teacher. What can I do? It's hardwired. --Jonah

Looks really good. Couple very small things. Proofreading, really. • The pistol from the promo shots is the SE-14R. • "Belt should be plastic..." • Remove the second comma from the two "Biceps/Forearms, which must be fully closed" lines. • "The ab plate must be a TK ab plate with [take out the "a"] buttons..." There are a couple other iffy-but-okay grammar/punctuation points, but fix the above typos and it'll be close enough for government work. --Jonah

So mic tips and frown mesh are all that're left? Gawd, the anticipation is killing us. *chuckle* --Jonah

From what I know, the buttons on the ab plate are Mifdnight Blue. The tube stripes have no Humbrol match. But according to you, Paul, 221 is closest -- Mike posted your comments on it here. I'm grinding through all my many Testors paints to see if there's one there... Mike, after time to reflect, how do you feel about their Ford Engine Light Blue? --Jonah

Except that DVD transfer is crap. The colours are off, it's not anamorphic, and so on and so on. LFL didn't want to spend any more than necessary to bring the non-SE OT to DVD. I've still got my old collector's box of the pre-SE movies in widescreen, with a bonus "From Star Wars to Jedi: The Making of a Saga" video and abridged version of George Lucas: The Creative Impulse. --Jonah

So are we also taking on the Jump Troopers, EVO Troopers, and whatnot? --Jonah

Hm, I just answered your first thread you started about this. Might want to keep it confined to one topic. You can disregard what I said there -- this isn't a Dark Trooper. This is a Shadow Stormtrooper. They've been seen assigned to Imperial agents like Blackhole and Carnor Jax. They are 501st-approved costumes, but a word of warning -- there will be events you won't be able to attend in that costume because the organizers specifically request plain Stormtroopers or Clonetroopers. A Vader or a Fett might be welcome, but most stuff from the Expanded Universe won't be. That's why many of us have multiple costumes. I personally intend to have a plain white ANH-acurate Stormtrooper in addition to the rest of my stuff, just so I can pad the ranks when needed and not have to sit one out because they don't want a Royal Guard. --Jonah

Boss, "Dark Trooper" is the big scary guy from the Dark Forces video games -- not the Shadow Trooper or Blackhole Trooper (both names have been applied to the black Stormtrooper outfit). The actual Dark Trooper is very EU, and not just a recoloured TK. It's a droid with Stormtrooper-inspired armour, not a living being in a suit (although the Phase III Dark Trooper could be worn as an exoskeleton). Baraan, I'm not sure which you meant. And Terell, I want to make sure you're thinking of the right costume, as far as getting into the Legion goes, before you say for sure yea or nay. This is the illustration from the Complete Guide to Droids that shows all three Phases of Dark Trooper. And Baraan -- don't think you have to have only one costume. I've got eight in the works right now just for me and just for Star Wars. --Jonah

You believe that? If scarcity is why fuel prices in the U.S. are as high as they are and climbing as fast as they are... then why has Exxon-Mobile -- the most profitable corporation in the history of corporations -- been turning record-busting profits of over $40 billion (that's billion with a "B") a year (that's profit after operating costs, just to be prefectly clear)? Why are we putting 75,000 barrels of oil a day into a National Strategic Oil Reserve that's ~97% full? You're right that they'll charge what the market will bear. And they get away with it because we have to get from Point A to Point B, so we just resignedly shrug and say "oh well, guess I'll just have to pay it". And while we're at it, I just filled my 13-gallon tank today for $55.50 ($4.48/gal.). My '89 Honda Accord LX-i gets between 30 and 34 MPG. When this engine starts to go, I'm planning on replacing it with that of a new Civic Hybrid (same displacement and number of cylinders). Most of my driving is in to the grocery store or ferry terminal four miles away. I take the ferry over to Seattle, and the busses when over there. --Jonah

"Acetate". It's the stuff used for stage/set lighting gels. And actually, Nathan, I've been meaning to ask you about that. What do you think of a shade or so lighter, with the green acetate bonded securely (and distortion-free) to the outside to give it the right colour? --Jonah

Does the brow trim go all the way around? Or just look like it does? --Jonah