troopermaster

Yes, that's one of Wyatts cargo belts that I bleached. Looks good dunnit I haven't tried forming a helmet yet with the 1mm or 1.5mm for that matter. I have some 1mm PP to test as I would like to have the helmet made from a differnt plastic to the armour. PP and HDPE are virtually the same, paint is a nightmare sticking to it too.

Good point but I think if they went to the trouble of painting over the grey frown then they probably painted over the grey traps wth white before adding the decals. They may have had to do this if the decals were too small to cover the original ANH details. Just a thought

I'm inclined to agree with you there Jez. I used to wonder why they would go to the trouble of repainting the helmet and then leave all the glue everywhere if they wanted a nice new looking helmet. We can even see the glue on the helmet on screen in ESB so we know the troopers were rough. I'm still not sure why they even used decals and painted the frowns black? They could have just them as they were for what it's worth.

I have these photos of the same helmet that were posted on The Prop Den by Darth Karo (Thanks!) This has to one of my favourite found helmets. The surface texture is just amazing! ------------------

That was a good read on your site Jez and great to see John's notes/diagram. I've stated these new suits were in ESB for a number of years now and it's great to finally see that new suits were in fact made for ESB. I hope that John Mollo will be able to shed more light on the actual numbers of helmets and armour was made and maybe the final construction used for the armour. Looking at the diagram of the strapping I don't think they went with it after all, but I would like to be proven wrong From what I have seen of ANH and ROTJ armour, I have yet to see the hook and bar fasteners used.

Okay, sneak peak to get your juices flowing This is with unmodified abdomen plate

Please post as many photos as you can of that helmet on here for those of us who are not 501st.

I'll be updating this thread soon with some new photos of my 1mm armour. I have it about 95% finished so I'd prefer to wait it's completely before I show it off

That's great new Jez! Thanks for making effort to get in touch with John Mollo to discuss this further. I am really looking forward to hearing more about the production of these new MK2 suits

I added elastic stirrups once many years ago and they worked a treat. I glued a strip of elastic inside the shins near the ankle area becasue I was having the same problem with the shins riding up over my boots which weren't very tall at the time. It's a bit tricky getting your boots on becasue you have to have your shins already on but it's worth the xtra effort if your shins are a problem. Worked for me anyway, though I don't have that problem now

Try this- Mike shows how to weather clone armour but it's the same method used for stormtroopers.

It's possibe the date could be wrong but, there is no denying the date was 1980 when the red-backed photo was taken with Vader and the two troopers, one of which is ROTJ. We know for a fact that photo was part of the Topps trading cards back in 1980, proving that ROTJ style armour was around the time of ESB.

I don't know if there is any proof that the second photo you posted was taken in 1983 or not, but the two troopers look to be the same as the one taken in 1980. One even has a grey frown and the other black, same in both photos and they are all in the same positions too. This is no guarantee that they were taken at the same time I know, though the troopers do look to be the same to me. It's a shame they are not better quality so we can scrutinise them more. Seeing how the helmets are the main factor here, the last photo is over exposed and washing out most of the details on the trooper helmets for me to be able to tell if they are ESB style or ROTJ (I would hazzard a guess at ESB personally )

Nice comparison. I see four ANH/ESB style helmets in there (one rounded), the rest are squashed ROTJ . What I cannot figure out is why are there two types of helmet made for one film? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Don't you find that odd? Now, if like I suspect they had planned to make all new trooper costumes for ESB but for whatever reason got behind and couldn't meet the deadline, they had to reuse the old ANH kits. After filmed began, new costumes were finished and only a couple made it on screen then these moulds were reused or fettled to make the costumes for ROTJ. We know for a fact that a new costume was photograhed with Vader in 1980, there's no denying that. You say you have no opinion on that armour and that's fine. I see 100% ROTJ armour and helmet, and can spot the difference between ANH and ROTJ a mile away.

Like the ones used in ESB. I find it too much of a coincedence that these helmets have all the same details as an ANH/ESB except made from ABS where the other Rounded Frowns not only look different, but have new decals and assembled differently. This tells me that new helmets were made specifically for ROTJ and they may have used one of these ESB ABS helmets to copy, and maybe the new armour too. I'm sticking to my guns with this, just as I have for the past few years. It's quite obvious that ROTJ style armour and helmets were around in 1980, well before ROTJ was filmed. My guess is that they did use these new ESB suits to make the new ROTJ armour. I can tell that new right arm pieces were made for ROTJ as they differ greatly from ANH. All the troopers from ESB era (with ROTJ style armour) have doubled up left arms which further strenghtens my theory. Anyway, looking forward to seeing the new section on your site Jez and I love the new layout

I don't know what shape your plastic tab was, but I always make them oblong shape so that the glue is further away from the snap in the middle. Put a blob of E6000 on each end of the tab and wait a few minutes before applying it to the armour. The glue will not run as it will feel almost dry but it will stick just fine. Another thing I do when attaching these tabs is to simply tape them in place while waiting for the glue to cure. Using clamps puts exsessive force on the tabs that is not necessary and if glue does touch the metal snap, the clamp is forcing it against the plastic and increases the chance of it burning through. Summary: Use oblong tabs and tape them in place while glue dries

I'd have thought you would want to troop in your ABS suit rather than the more brittle Styrene

That's a strange looking trooper David, but it is original and looks to be ANH except for the odd paint job. I haven't seen this trooper before and I am looking forward to seeing more of the photos of it

If you can get some E6000, that's what I recommend. It really is $h!t hot Use 1/4" (6mm) black elastic across the palm and another around the wrist or like Paul suggests, sew them onto your cotton/lycra gloves like they did in ESB.

I measured my hyperfirm MG34 and the vented barrel shroud looks to be 36mm across. I'm not sure how that translates to inches, but would think 1 3/8" approximately.

Here's a thought..... What if they originally planned to make all new trooper suits for ESB since the old ANH's were in such bad conditon, they were not ready in time when filming started and they had to use the damaged ANH? That would explain why they used what they had at hand and why only a couple of the new kits were used on screen. Going back to the photo from Getty, there is no doubt in my mind that they are the same as ROTJ troopers. Forget the grey paint on the frown, that's just cosmetic. Just the shapes of the helmets is a give away, even if it isn't the best quality image. The troopers both look just like JB's ROTJ, the helmets are virtually identicle in shape. I think if you can find a better quality photo it will confirm what I am saying. The red backed photo....is that an ESB or ROTJ Vader? I haven't got the foggiest about Vader, so maybe if we can identify Vader it will help us get some kind of date for the photo.

Mark, You would want both ROTJ helmets and armour to be screen accurate. What I am trying to get at here is that there are at least two different sets of armour in ESB that are the same as ROTJ. The two screen grabs I posted showing Chewie getting cuffed, both troopers arms are ROTJ and not ANH/ESB. They both have the return edge at the wrist, moulded joining strips and no stitching to the hand plates, all features of ROTJ. Now, I am willing to hazzard a guess that as I am convinced about the two ROTJ armours in ESB, these are probably the same suits as the ones in the promo photos with Vader in the streets of London. I don't know why or if they made more of these suits for ESB, I just know they made at least two before they made new ROTJ suits, otherwise they would not be on screen or in a photo dated 1980. Aaron, I agree mate. Look past the grey paint and deeper into the shapes. Everything about the whole costume in the red background photo just screams ROTJ to me too, especially when comparing it to the real ESB trooper next to Vader.

I know it's not a very large image, but they are definately not ANH or ESB troopers. The ab plates have the upside down buttons and the shins are tucked into the boots on one of the troopers, just like in the other photo that you think is 1983. I think they were taken at the same time and are in fact the same troopers and Vader. The helmets look the same too, one with a black frown and the other is grey. Too much of a coincidence I think.

I just checked on Getty Images and the date for the photo is 31st March 1980. Getty Images

That's not an ANH hero helmet, definately not. That's an ROTJ as we know it, but I honestly believe that is was made before ROTJ. Everything about that armour and helmet is ROTJ except for the grey frown. One thing I have noticed too is that all the ROTJ style armour from the photos I have posted (including the screen grabs) all look to have right forearms on both arms. Now, if there was a handful of stunt suits made for ESB, then it's possible they only made bucks of one arm. When ROTJ comes along, they use the same moulds (or make new ones from these stunt suits) and make sided arms since the ROTJ forearm is considerably different from an ANH while the right is almost identicle, albeit shorter. It's possible they used one bicep (left) and sculpted a right from this, keeping the thimbprint detail. One thing is for sure, the screen grabs show a different armour from the regular ANH and ESB sets. The shoulder straps have the velcro visable (ANH straps were glued). The edging trim on the chest (ANH had none). No sewing on the hand plates (Just like ROTJ). Could it be possible that the stunt suits made for ESB were reused in ROTJ? We know there is an ESB helmet on the Ewoks drum kit!