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Harbinger

Imperial Propaganda Department[IPM]
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Posts posted by Harbinger

  17. "E6000 + Snaps = Uh-Oh" deformation discussion thread

    in Assembly, Mods, and Painting

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, QuartZ said:

    Hmm, that's really interesting that you didn't know you had warps/bumps/humps before! Oh my what scandal have I uncovered!? Dare I say this should be called...SNAPGATE?

     

    Ok, so this morning I took @ukswrath's advice and popped off a snap plate. Luckily as I do a lot of 3D printing I own this tool that I bought on amazon that I use to remove objects from my printers bed. It's thin flexible metal that gets under an edge and makes removing things like this really easy:

    IMG_5163.JPG

     

    So, with that tool and some nervousness about what I might find under the snap plate, I chose the worst one on the kidney armor which was the center one along the posterior seam. It was also in the first stage of glue ups where I used heavy pressure (from big magnets and medium clamps), no black electrical tape, but no glue applied to the snaps. Here's what I found:

    IMG_5162.JPG

     

    Nothing conclusive! The glue had a great bond, was fully cured, and was clear/not discolored. The snaps looked brand new. No signs of any chemical reaction with the snaps or ABS printed snap plates. At least nothing I can observe with my naked eye. That doesn't rule i out at all as I admit it isn't scientific. I don't see any melting of any parts involved.

     

    Even more interesting, is that after removing this, the plastic returned somewhat to it's original shape. I'd say it went back to about 80% of what it looked like before. Next, I tried using a little pressure with my thumbs from the outside while bracing the inside with my other fingers to press down on the high points of the humps. After wiping the surface with a cloth to remove fingerprints, it looked like this:

    IMG_5168.JPG

    IMG_5166.JPG

     

    You can look back at my "before" posts and I think I would say that removing the snaps and a little massaging of the armor with my hands put it back to about 90% of the original condition. I really don't see much warping anymore. If it's there, it's so slight that I think no one else would spot it without me pointing it out and really angling lights at the damn thing. So, at least I'm happy that I have a good place to start from for attempt #2.

     

    Another datapoint that I'll give is this. I pulled off all of the snap plates that I had installed and wanted to show what happened with the snaps that had black electrical tape on them. Pretty much everything was the same as the snaps without tape, but the electrical tape had melted from either contact with glue or gas...and there was some black smudgy gunk, all o which I was able to clean off simply with a paper towel and some alcohol. The glue bond was still fine, and these plates didn't exhibit and more or less warping. So I state that the electrical tape was not a differentiating factor:

    IMG_5165.JPG

     

    Gotta run...more on this when I continue. Discuss! ;)

     

    -Dana

    Very strange.

     

    FWIW my plates were pre-bent and that didn't seem to make much difference, perhaps the extra plate and glue causes some expansion/contraction issues leading to deformation? My working theory based on your latest post, at least...

  20. "E6000 + Snaps = Uh-Oh" deformation discussion thread

    in Assembly, Mods, and Painting

    Posted

    Seems this would do best as its own topic so as not to derail various build threads:

    On 1/16/2018 at 9:40 AM, QuartZ said:

    Hmmm, well last night was a bit of a bummer. If you are a pro builder, please give this post of mine a read and let me know what you think.

     

    I went to check out the kidney and posterior parts that I had installed my first snap plates on (I started with the seam that joins the two together). When I took off all of the magnets and clamps I discovered that the center snap plates locations (down the middle of the back) on both parts of armor exhibited some deformation or warping over the locations of the snaps. It's noticeable in certain lighting/reflection conditions. Here's a photo of the kidney to illustrate:

    IMG_5158.JPG

     

    Above you can see at the lower edge the reflection domes right where the snaps are located in the plates on the inside of the armor. Now, I tried to angle this into the light to help draw attention to the issue, and because it sits under the belt/thermal detonator, I'm not totally freaked out about it. It sucks, maybe it could be worse? But I'm trying to avoid it happening as I keep gluing these in! The locations to either side have some subtle doming too, but not as bad/noticeable as here on the flat location. The same is true for the 3 locations across the seam on the posterior.

     

    Now, I did NOT apply any E6000 directly to the snap metal. In fact, in designing the plates and spreading the glue, the whole point was to avoid the metal contacting the ABS as much as possible and to not get any glue on the snaps! I was very diligent about that.

     

    So, after being a bit bummed, I searched and read more about the rumors of E6000 and snaps causing heat/melting/warping. There really is no definitive information about this that I could easily find. But from all of the opinions that I could gather on the subject, I decided to try some modifications to my next set of snap plates in hopes of resolving the issue. So, last night I started by cutting little squares of electrical tape (with the corners cut off) and applying them to my snap plates like this:

    IMG_5157.JPG

     

    This precaution seemed unnecessary as I mentioned before that I'm not putting any glue over the snaps...but I wanted to eliminate 1 variable with the tape. Important note: in attaching this next set of snaps, I still did not put any glue over the metal snap areas (now covered by black electrical tape). The next change I went with was to reduce the clamping force used to hold the snap plates while the glue set up. I used my larger magnets and clamps last time and I thought the pressure may have been so great and the ABS so thin in these areas that perhaps they squeezed around the snap areas cause the warped/dome shapes? I don't know, but less pressure was the goal. Here's what take 2 looked like on the back and kidney armor:

    IMG_5153.JPG

    IMG_5155.JPG

     

    And a closeup of smaller/less magnets used in conjunction with painters tape and smaller/less powerful clamps:

    IMG_5154.JPG

     

    The result was inconclusive. I'm not really sure. It still didn't resolve the issue as I can see subtle humps in the plastic if I look for them in at least the kidney armor in the center location and on one side (left). The back armor actually turned out pretty good and if there's any deformation, it's so slight that I don't notice it. Here's a photo showing what the second method yields in a more flat lighting condition where shadows help emphasize the deformation. Note that this time the upper edge in this photo would be along the seam that attaches to the back plate and the bottom edge on the floor is the first gluing attempt where I first noticed the problem:

    IMG_5159.JPG

     

    And here's that first image I posted again because it was actually taken this morning after 12 hours of clamping time so that you can compare in a more reflective lighting condition. Look closely at the top left edge of the armor. The reflection does warp around the location of the snaps in both cases:

    IMG_5158.JPG

     

    So, I'm not sure what's going on. My final thought is that perhaps glue across the whole snap plate and over the electrical tape would be better in that the ABS would be uniformly effected by whatever the glue is doing. It's one of the constants in both of my attempts so far. Perhaps the glue heats up, maybe not. Perhaps the glue shrinks or expands a bit and since I don't have any in the snap areas this happens. Perhaps I need to apply pressure differently like putting a scrap abs rectangle on the inside/outside for more uniform pressure?

     

    I just want to avoid jacking up the chest at this point as the locations will be too noticeable, I am considering using CA glue at this point, but don't like that I get 1 shot, and it may make the ABS brittle. That also worries me. I think I'll do the ab locations next as they should be hidden under the chest. I'm going to try some of the thought I had above but I'll wait until some others chime in.

     

    Any additional help and/or guidance on this issue is much appreciated,

    -Dana

    19 hours ago, wook1138 said:

    Ok, I doubled checked for those dimples. I have a few very discreet ones associated with a few of my nylon bases. Most of them blend in and I didn’t bother trying to photograph them. The ABS snap bases were more obvious. Here is one:
    679949ebef7613a86177d7a96ef3deec.jpg

    Here is a closer shot. There is some yellow discolouration. 73ddf778ac5d1883b1cc16253e60d568.jpg

    To be fair, I did get glue on the metal for this one. It also looks way worse in the pics.


    This is a location of an old nylon base that was moved. Yellow discolouration.
    c71507ac51066d79cb4a6257913d3c7d.jpg

    Used nylon bases. No sign of corrosion of metal but the e6000 is mostly yellow.
    e015957a9e6d9b4630c65c0fab3bd901.jpg

    The only other place I used the ABS plates were on the shoulder straps. There is a slight bump on the back ones, I can’t see the front ones.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

     

    3 hours ago, QuartZ said:

    Thanks for posting all of these photos. I think it’s important and will help others hopefully in dealing with or avoiding issues similar to ours. That image (above) is more “pointed” or defined than mine. Mine are much lower elevation changes spread out over a slightly larger diameter.

     

    Actually, I warmed and bent each plate into a slight curve where necessary to closely match the location on the armor. So when I laid hem on the armor before glue, there were little to no gaps. When I glued them and clamped with magnets, I didn’t see any strain or bend. I’m fact, my second set after I noticed the first set warp used very little pressure with light clamps and fewer/weaker magnets. Really strange. The snap plates weren’t trying to spring off the armor in any way, that’s why I curved those that needed it.

     

    -Dana

     

    1 hour ago, Harbinger said:

    Mine does in fact have warping, but I'm like 90% sure it developed slowly as they weren't there before:

    waNiP5U.jpg

     

    The bumps are in pretty much every spot I have a snap plate - some have glue on the metal, some don't, some are recessed more than others, so I don't think those variables affect the outcome much.

    6 hours ago, wook1138 said:

    Short answer is, "I don't know".  Turns out that E6000 may react with the metal of the snaps - creating heat - and then resulting in, well... you saw the picture.  Some of the recommendations have included:

    • avoid getting E6000 on the actual snap (metal).  I don't know how this could be reasonably achieved while still getting enough E6000 on the snap base.
    • use high quality snaps (I used Tandy brand snaps - they were supposed to be good).  Ukswrath (Tony) mentions what snaps he uses in QuartZ's thread.  I used nickle plated snaps - maybe stainless steel is better?
    • be mindful of how you position and clamp the snap while the glue dries.  Maybe I need to add some kind of support to the back side (the side in the image) so the snap does not get pushed through the ABS.

    QuartZ also discussed some methods he tried to avoid the issue as well.  That said, this does not appear to be a common issue with other builders. 

     

    I did notice that the E6000 will react with the magnets - I have some yellow discoloration where the magnets (especially if the outer protective coat has been compromised or chipped off) came in contact with the ABS and E6000 during drying.  I'm using magnets bought at Lee Valley and the E6000 was bought in Canada - which may be slightly different from what is sold in the US.

     

    6 hours ago, wook1138 said:

    Oh yeah, I also read somewhere that E6000 reacts to pressure - it heats with applied pressure.  Not sure if this is true or not, but something else to consider.  So, don't apply too much pressure.  Yeesh.

     

    5 hours ago, Bud Spaklur said:

    LOL! So let me get this straight- apply pressure, but DONT apply pressure....apply glue, but don’t let the glue get on anything.....use snaps, but don’t let them come in contact with the plastic...... So why’d you get Canadian E6000? Also wondering if wrapping snaps in a layer of painters tape will help with discoloration?

    I thought I saw somewhere somebody glued the snaps to a small 1” ABS plastic plate, and then glued the other side of the plate to the ABS directly- so it acted as a barrier of protection.....could this/is this advised?

    Any of the gurus want to weigh in here???


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

     

    5 hours ago, Frank1769 said:



    I thought I saw somewhere somebody glued the snaps to a small 1” ABS plastic plate, and then glued the other side of the plate to the ABS directly- so it acted as a barrier of protection.....could this/is this advised?

    Any of the gurus want to weigh in here???


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


    Not a guru here but I glued all my snaps to a scrap piece of plastic then glued that to the armor. I’ve got different armor but I had no issues. I’ve checked the snaps and they don’t appear to be reacting to the glue. Most of them I used a different glue with because it stuck better but some have e6000. I thought it would be helpful in snapping everything with an extra little bit of space. Also I’ve had no issues with magnet discoloration but wrapping them be helpful. I’m wondering if environment has anything to do with it, like humidity and temp.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

     

    5 hours ago, wook1138 said:

    Ha ha.  Yep, that is about it. 

     

    I'm in Canada - so, Canadian E6000.  Yes, I do try to wrap the magnets with painters tape - but, stuff happens.  QuartZ did try to use electrical tape on the actual snaps to stop the reaction.  I didn't do this.

     

    So, to follow... you make the snap plate (snap set to small piece of ABS or nylon) then attach another piece of ABS to the back of that, then attach the whole thing to the armor?  I haven't seen that but that would protect the armor from the metal. 

     

    4 hours ago, TheSwede said:

    Perhaps to much glue was used, it does get hot and more glue - more heat in combination with what others already said with snap-plates straining the armor for a longer period of time..never used E6000 though,  used snap-plates on my TX build with zap-a-gap and that stuff gets really hot but nothing happend with the armor (Anovos). That stuff cures in seconds. Now I only use the ”movie-way” hence no snap-plates. So...try using less glue and see what happens :huh:

     

    (I've quoted most of the relevant posts for posterity and context.)

  21. Canister for thermal detonator

    in Boots, Soft Parts, and other Accessories

    Posted

    2 hours ago, rzill said:

    The canister (assume you have end caps and control panel) is just gray sewer pipe.  

    Stupid question maybe, but is this gray PVC pipe?

    The 'correct' pipe is 2" (actually 60.3mm) UK-spec ABS pipe, which is gray. You can find something similar in the US but it will most likely be black... so you have the choice to import or paint. Testors 1138 is a good match.

  22. QuartZ's Anovos ANH Stunt Build

    in ANH Build Threads

    Posted

    Mine does in fact have warping, but I'm like 90% sure it developed slowly as they weren't there before:

    waNiP5U.jpg

     

    The bumps are in pretty much every spot I have a snap plate - some have glue on the metal, some don't, some are recessed more than others, so I don't think those variables affect the outcome much.

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