MakeNoiseMan

Hi everyone! Been a little while since I've posted an update, but I have made sure to get some work done each day! Lots of the time it was just glueing and clamping a new part of the thighs and shins, so the day-to-day updates wouldn't have been very meaty. Here is the montage! Really feeling like I'm starting to get close now. After finishing my tab and slot for the ab/kidney connection, I thought I'd go ahead and get the little "V-tabs" the keep the ab and butt plates in alignment. I can't remember which thread I saw this image on first, but it's what I emulated. I cut out some tabs and prepared them for a hot water bath. Since I was going to be boiling the water anyway, I thought I'd first prepare my thigh ammo pack and get it ready for its bath as well. Here's how it came from AP: Scored, snapped, and rounded the bottom corners: Then into the bath they went! Here is the result: I glued them into the butt plate and have since done a test fit. I am pleased! By this point, my thighs had finished curing and were ready for cover strips. Firstly, I used PlasticWeld to fill in the cracks in the bottom trim, let it harden, and then sanded it smooth (thanks for the a-okay on that, Daniel!). I went ahead and did the same to the back of the thighs as well, even though I might be trimming some off to make walking easier. Now, in case I don't, it will look clean like the front. And here they are after hardening and being sanded: I will be painting those junctures pure white so that they blend in with the ABS. I did a test fit to figure out my strapping, and then started gluing cover-strips on. That was a few days ago, so I'll jump right to the finished photos. (I did some cleaning up at the top, front ends between photos. That's why they look messy from behind in the second photo). Strapping-wise, I'll be following Eric's advice and running my thigh straps along the side of my legs instead of the front. I measured the distance to my belt and prepared 2" elastic straps, reinforced with ABS as usual. The distance was 4" for me, plus an extra 1/2" inside the thigh to connect to the snaps. I used the same method to make straps to connect my biceps to my forearms. I didn't originally think I would need these, but I've reconsidered. It's hard to predict how much they'll twist over the course of a troop. Better safe than sorry! Thanks for everyone's input on this way back when. Then I set all the snaps, including the male ones that will glue inside the armour. I had to buy one last pack of Line 24s for this. That should be all now, though. At least I hope so—that was over $150 dollars worth of snaps over the course of the build! Of course, I did break a few. Or several. You'll notice I accidentally set the snaps in one of the thigh straps backwards (grrrrr). I thought about re-doing it, but ultimately it's such a small detail I don't think it's worth the time just to make it sit slightly more flush against my leg. Plus, I can just use that one on my left side so it's covered by the holster and isn't seen anyway. And that basically just leaves the shins! After that, I'm a couple of knees and some white paint away from submitting my application photos. By the way—I saw on the bulletin that applications won't be processed until after the 19th of February while the Legion elections are taking place. Duly noted! I elected to use velcro for my shin closures. I think they look good enough, but I took some pictures to get your opinions of them. I wish they closed up a little more flush, but I think that's simply a drawback of velcro and that hooks or magnets could/should be used for a tighter connection. All the same, velcro was the most functionally desirable for me so I stuck with my path. If they need work, or if anyone has any suggestions, please do let me know. Lastly, I got the finishing strips cut out, sanded and glued in place. And that's where we are for right now! Whew, that post was a lot bigger than I thought it was going to be. In hindsight maybe I should have broken this into smaller posts throughout the week. Thanks all for your continued feedback and critique. You guys rock!

Thanks so much! :-) Today was leg day! Last night I got the front of my thighs connected via the inner cover strip. I'm thinking I'll glue on the front finishing strip too before I close them at the back, just to ensure maximum sturdiness along the way. This morning, I got started on my shins. I trimmed them out and fitted them. They fit quite well by following Mark's trim lines at the back and trimming to a 20mm raised edge along the front. After that, I cut out and installed the inner cover strips. For the front of the shins, I'll be using a ~15mm strip as normal, but I cut 25mm strips for the backs. I'll be closing them with velcro, and plan to install velcro to both the outer and inner cover strips at the back of the shins. I'm hoping it'll be an extra strong connection that way. I also made sure that I was gluing in such a way that my velcro cover strips will "overlap" towards the inside, as per the CRL requirement. Lastly, my tab and slot system had finished drying and I was relieved to find it worked as intended! Now the ab and kidney close quite evenly together. Huzzah! More updates to come later. Thanks everyone! :-)

Hi everyone! Small update. I got started on my thighs. Got them fitted comfortably and the raised cover-strip section is 20mm. Cut some inner strips out of scrap ABS and glued them in. Question—would it be acceptable to use PlasticWeld and close up the disconnect of the thigh trim (just beneath the cover strips)? I know a small "crack" there is fine, but in this regard I dig the "idealized" look. Sanded and painted white, I think it would blend in well. If this is a no-no, it shan't be done! Lastly, I glued on the remaining bits for my ab/kidney tab and slot. Hopefully it works as I envision! If not, it's no biggie to re-do. That's all for now! Thanks troopers :-)

Thanks for the tips! I can remove the weathering from the T-tracks no problem (I think—if not, I'll paint over them with black). As for the hengstler (that's a new word for me!), I don't think I can move it. The whole piece came as one resin model from Quest Design. If any fellow owners of this model can correct me on that, I'd be glad to hear it :-) Thanks so much!! I appreciate it! Haha! I promise I'm not rushing. Just super motivated! As for the blaster, I don't currently have plans to do more work on it—unless I am missing something for L3 :-) Today, my drop boxes had finished drying, so I got them hooked up to the belt. They seem like they'll do a fine job of storing small things like cash and ID! The velcro on top keeps them securely shut, so no worry of anything falling out. In fact, they're a little too hard to open, but I don't anticipating needing to open them mid-troop often, if ever. Like my other elastics, I wanted to reinforce these straps with ABS. I cut out 1" squares to fasten into the elastic. Because of the extra layer of ABS, my pop rivets didn't reach all the way through, so I used chicago screws instead. I also put a small dab of superglue at the top and bottom edges of the canvas belt to stop the elastics from sliding out of place. And here's everything I have so far! It feels so cool to wear. Lastly for today, I got the first pieces glued that I'll need for the tab and slot on my right side kidney/ab. Tomorrow I'll glue the top plates on these pieces and they should slide between each other nicely. That's it for now! I've just started cutting out the thigh pieces. More to come later on. Thanks in advance for your critiques! :-)

That is an excellent idea, thank you! I'll do that for sure. Awesome!! That's a relief, haha. Sure! I can take some more off no problem. I'll save that bit for a little later, like re-doing my tube stripes. Once I've got my application for basic acceptance submitted I'll go back over and touch up the paint for L3. :-D Thanks! Don't worry about speed—I just happen to have a lot of time. Enjoy the process! I sure have. :-D Thanks so much!! That means a lot. It has been (and continues to be) so much fun. And thanks for the tips, I will trim some more off the ab return edge—I definitely value comfort. :-) It maaay be a little too late to move my belt higher. We'll see how it looks when it all comes together. If it is an issue, I'll make it happen! Onwards we go! It's been a busy few days. Starting now, I've got a (soft) deadline on my build! For two reasons: Firstly, I'll be moving in about 45 days and would love to have the suit finished before I start boxing up my house. Secondly, I'll have my first opportunity to troop as a TK (if it's ready) on February 8th! The event is with a local costume hobby group I'm with called Heroically Ever After, but they are running a Star Wars segment of the day in partnership with the Southwestern Ontario branch of the Canadian Garrison. Even if the TK isn't ready by then, I'm very much looking forward to meeting the other troopers in my area. Woohoo! Back to the build: With the ammo belt finished, I started working on the drop boxes. I decided to try and make them functional storage compartments for small items like money, ID or keys. I cut out and trimmed the outer and inner boxes, and cut the elastic and velcro strapping I'll use for the assembly: They'll be fastened together at the bottom with nylon, and attach together at the top with velcro. Hopefully this works! If not, they'll still be sufficiently decorative. :-) Tomorrow, the glue will be finished drying and I can attach them to the belt. Next, my acrylic paint arrived in the mail, so I spent a little time with my E-11. Here's how it comes in it's original (gorgeous) state from Brett and Quest Design Canada: Firstly, I stretched and installed a spring I bought off of Amazon. The width was labelled 19mm, which fit into the 20mm back opening of the gun perfectly without any need for adhesion. After that, I glued the back cap on with E6000. Then I got to painting! I followed advice and colour choices from this great youtube video: I also painted the back of these clear cabochons black and glued them into either end of the scope to simulate glass. The smaller one is 10mm and fit perfectly, the larger one is 25mm and had to be sanded down a little. And the result: I am very happy with how it turned out! And finally, I attached my holster to the canvas belt. I used this image as a guide for measurements. Quick note, I found the measurement between drill holes to be approximately 12cm on the AP-supplied holster. I marked, drilled and cauterized the holes. Once again, I fastened male snaps on the inside with split rivets on the outside. Then, I installed female snaps on the holster straps—which, by the way, thanks Mark (AP) for supplying the tan leather straps! From earlier threads, I assumed I was going to have to track some down myself. A pleasant surprise that they were already this colour. :-) And that's where we are for now! Next I'll be installing the tab and slot system on the abs, and then I think all that's left are the thighs and shins (and painting some rivets white). We're getting there!

Hello everyone! I didn't get the opportunity to post yesterday, but I've had a productive couple of mornings. While the glue was drying on the male snaps, I measured and created the remaining female snap straps I would need for the torso assembly. Then, after the glue had dried, I measured, drilled and installed the cod rivet. As aforementioned, I turned it into a male snap on the inside to connect to the posterior strap. And with that in place, I was able to do my first real fit of the torso assembly! Much to my relief, everything seemed to line up well and I was comfortable while wearing it. I think I'll sand down the inside return edges just a bit—unaltered, they're a little sharp. I do still have to install the tab and slot system on my right side—you'll notice the ab and kidney aren't yet flush with each other. Question about the thigh garter—in those photos, I am wearing my black belt comfortably around my waist, but you can see it from the side angles. Is this normal? Or should it be worn higher up on my stomach? Moving on, I started with the ammo belt. First, I scored and snapped it out. Then, after measuring and marking the centre of the canvas belt, I marked and trimmed the corners of the ammo belt at 45º. I also marked the points along the ammo belt that would be drilled for pop rivets. Then, using this image is a reference, I marked the points on the ab section for male snaps. However, I had read on a couple of threads that on AP suits the lefthand side snap (right side of the photo) should measure 40mm instead of 59mm. With this in mind, I drilled and installed the male snaps. Then, as others suggest, I traced the tips of the male snaps with a pencil and lined up the canvas belt in the proper position. Pressing on the male snaps left marks on the canvas belt where the female snaps would be installed. And with the female snaps installed, I was able to attach the canvas belt to the ab. Afterwards, I lined up the ammo belt over the canvas, followed the curve of the ab, and marked through the drill holes for rivets. I might have overthought this step a little—in hindsight, it probably would have been fine to lay the belt flat and rivet it that way. As it is, my ammo belt has a slight outward bend on the left side when laid flat, but not on the right side. I should have taken a picture. I don't think it's a big deal at all, though—when it's curved, it aligns just fine and there's no issue. And lastly, I cut, trimmed and sanded the rivet covers for the belt. I also tidied the paint on my ab button plates. These pieces have all been installed with e6000 and are now drying. I didn't have any clamps that could reach far enough, and magnets kept pulling the buttons out of position, so I end up just pressing them in with glue and leaving them as they are. From what I've read, that should be sufficient. We'll see tomorrow once it's dry. Fingers crossed! And that's it for now! Thanks in advance for your feedback and suggestions. :-D Talk soon!

Haha! Yes, I do work! My workday just happens to accommodate armour-building really well. Our family owns and runs a music school in our town, and since most of our students are kids in public school, we don't open until 2:00pm on weekdays. That means that most days I have a few hours in the morning to build before heading into the office.

Thanks so much, guys!! :-D I'm having a blast. Last night I glued in the remaining male snaps on the right side of the ab/kidney (but forgot to take pictures). It may be redundant, but I am adding one more strap on the the bottom of the right side, even though the belt is sufficient to hold it together. I'm just paranoid. :-) Since the glue was still drying, this morning I moved on to the butt plate. Using the measurements from Ukswrath's ANOVOS build, I marked, drilled and countersunk holes for the two male snaps. And got the snaps installed. Again I used the supplied AP snaps here because they are visible from the outside (from a very specific, unlikely angle). I really liked the sturdiness of the elastic/ABS combo used for the shoulder bridges, so I decided to use it again here (even if it's a little overkill). I'll be turning the codpiece rivet into a snap on the inside, so I installed one female snap on the other end of the strap. Right about here, my latest (and probably final—probably) package from Amazon arrived with more snaps. Just in time! There are also some more rare earth magnets, a belt for my thigh garter, and some springs and clear cabochons (I didn't know what these were until yesterday!) to enhance my E-11 a little. With my snap stock replenished, I made straps for the ab/kidney connections, as well as the 14 remaining male snap assemblies I'll need to put the rest of the torso together. After this, I'll only need to make snaps for the thighs and possibly for the forearms. And lastly, I got the male snaps glued into the butt plate. The rest will go into place on the other pieces tomorrow, after the current round of gluing is finished. That's it for now! As always, your critique is much appreciated. Thanks everyone! :-)

Hi everyone, happy Monday! Since those other pieces were still finishing up their 24-hour dry-time, this morning I set about the ab assembly. Since I'm building for Centurion, this means the left side will have six visible rivets (three on the ab, three on the kidney) painted white, and the right side will have one visible male snap. I used Ukswrath's ANOVOS build as a guide for my measurements here: After a test fit, I discovered that trimming to Mark's indicated "movie accurate" size is the correct fit for me. Hooray for accuracy! Those OTTKs must have had some extra room in there. Also, I decided to leave on the ab's return edge for now, until I have the strapping done. Then, I'll see how it feels and if I need to open it up some more I'll trim some or all of it away. Back to business: I scored and snapped both the ab and kidney to the pre-drawn pencil lines. For clarification, I'll be referring to the sides of my pieces as "left and right" relative to how they fit on my body when assembled (i.e. "left side" of the ab closes on the left side of my body). Here is the left side of the ab with its drill holes marked, starting 2cm away from the return edge and spaced 6cm apart from each other: And here are my pre-drill guide marks: Voila! Since I would still like to disassemble the ab and kidney at will, I'll be using the "turn rivets into snaps" method. I cannot remember where I read this first, but it's a great idea. All you have to do is trim down the split rivet, and using a chisel (or in my case flathead screwdriver) and hammer, set the rivet into the inside of a male snap. I found that finishing the job with the snap-setting tool firmed up the snap nicely. Next, I moved on to the right-side snap, which I'd like to be functional. As directed in Ukswrath's guide, I measured 20mm away from both the return edge and the kidney-side edge. I drilled, countersunk and installed the male snap. I used a supplied AP snap instead of a Tandy snap for this so that I didn't become a non-canon Tandy advertisement (even though half of the Empire is held together with their supplies!). And that's where things are for right now! Tomorrow, I'll get the interior strapping done. I'll be adding one more strap on the bottom of the right side, and also using the "tab and slot" method to keep things lined up properly.

Noted! I will correct those once the glue/paint has dried. Thanks! :-D Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks guys! Away it shall go. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi everyone! I got a lot of little jobs done today. Firstly, while the glue was still drying from yesterday, I cut out and painted the ab buttons. Here's how they come from AP: I trimmed them out, leaving the 1/8" border around the bigger plate, and sanded them. And paint applied! I will clean up the edges with a toothpick once it dries. By this point, the glue on the shoulder bells and biceps had dried: So I cut, glued and installed the bell straps, using small rectangles of ABS to sandwich them in place: Then the shoulder bridges were ready to be installed, so I got those glued to the chestplate. You can also see the velcro and straps I installed to hold the Aker amp I'll be using. Ukswrath's helmet speakers sound awesome, but are a little too quiet on their own in my opinion. Using a 3.5" Y splitter, I'm running my helmet mic to both the hovi-tip speakers and the Aker speaker in the chestplate for a satisfying blend of volume and clarity. I'll post pictures later on in case anyone else wants to do the same! Next, I cut two strips of scrap ABS and hot water bathed them into hooks for the biceps. Lastly, with all my clamps and magnets used up, I started trimming the ab section. And that's where we are for now! Question—I've seen the return edge on the top of the ab section used for bracket assemblies. Since I'm using snaps instead, should I trim off this return edge for a closer fit to my body? Or is it still better to leave it? I can see how on the back, kidney and butt plates the return edges will keep them all lined up together, but the since chestplate will hang down in front of the ab section, I am unsure here. Thanks guys! :-)

Thanks for the tips! Based on your suggestions, I went with the hot water bath. It wasn't nearly as scary as it seemed! Firstly, here are the shoulder bridges as they come from Mark at AP: Cut them out: Removed the rear tab and sanded: Then came the hot water bath! I boiled a big pot of water. Q's directions were bang on. 30 seconds in the water: Then I curved it in my hand and ran it under cold tap water (no picture—hands were full, haha). And the result! Once more, and we're done. Next, as many suggest I reinforced the shoulder bridges by cutting out small bits of scrap ABS to fill in the slots on the undersides. I was rather generous with the e6000 here. I figure that, if needed, I can peel away the excess, and the goop that remains will further reinforce the bridges. And that's where they now sit. Once they dry, I'll glue them to the chestplate. Here's a question. I know that the bridges will free-float at the rear and will be secured by a thin white elastic to the straps at the backplate. How does this factor into suiting up? As we've already established, my head is on the large side and doesn't fit through the head opening on my armour on it's own, so I'll have to undo and redo one shoulder each time I put it on. I might be overthinking this—we'll find out once I glue them to the chestplate, haha. Is it doable to snap the chestplate on, then reach back and slide the bridge through the elastic? I know this is a total non-issue if you have a second person to help, which will be always when trooping. But I'd love to be able to put the suit on by myself just in case, even if it is more of a pain. :-)

Hello everyone! With the glue tried on my snaps, I started on some strapping today! Regretfully, I didn't take too many photos this time around. I was too caught up in the work! Firstly, I did some test fitting of the chestplate and backplate with painters' tape in preparation for the shoulder straps. I've seen it suggested to reinforce the snaps on the shoulder straps with ABS since they're elastic instead of nylon. So, I first cut out and drilled four 2-by-1" rectangles of ABS.The straps themselves are 2" white elastic from TrooperBay. Then, I installed the female snaps. After another test fit, this time with the shoulder bells, I cut and cauterized straps for the bells and installed female straps in those, as well as male snaps on the underside of the shoulder straps. And the test fit so far! In that photo, there are no straps on my biceps or forearms—they're just sitting freely on my arms. Currently, the next set of snaps are drying inside the bells and biceps. I have a question about the forearms, but I'll come back to that in a moment. Lastly, I prepared my latex-ish handguards for gluing onto the black gloves (all from AP). I stuffed the gloves with plastic bags first to simulate hands. I can't remember which thread I saw this on. Probably several! My reading here on the FISD forums indicated that Loctite Plastics Bonding glue was just about the only glue that would hold these pieces together, so I tracked it down. I ended up finding it on Amazon. And there sit the gloves, curing until tomorrow: And that's where we are for now! As always, I welcome and appreciate your critique and feedback. On to my questions! 1: Does everyone attach their forearms to their biceps with a strap, or do some just let the forearms free-float? Mine are pretty secure on my arms all on their own, and I haven't even added any padding inside yet (which I plan to—a small amount). 2: Next I plan on doing the outer, ABS shoulder straps. The ones come from AP come straight and I expect they'll need to be curved with some heat. What are your suggestions for doing this? I've heard of hot water baths, but I don't know all the steps (how long, etc.). I've also seen a hair dryer suggested, which I could do. I don't have a heat gun, though. 3: Is there a proper amount to cut off of the shoulder straps? Most builds I see trim off the back large rectangle. That's it for now! Thanks everyone. :-)

Hi everyone! I got a start on some strapping done. Using the template, I created twenty strips of strapping to glue inside the armour (as a start). As many have suggested, I used a soldering iron to do this—and HIGHLY recommend it! Not only did it make the task really easy, but it was also really satisfying. Simply poke the iron through the holes in the template and then run it along the edges to stop them from fraying. Then I hammered male Tandy snaps into the straps. I bought 40 pairs of male/female snaps, but since I'm doubling up on snaps, that'll only be enough for 20 connections. I'm expecting I'll need to order some more snaps. And lastly, I got the first few straps glued into place on the chestplate, backplate and shoulder bells. I forgot to take a picture of the chestplate, but it's essentially the same as that of the backplate. More updates to come! Thanks for your ongoing input. :-)

Whoops, I should have been more descriptive! I do plan on gluing all the snaps in with nylon webbing, as you describe. The ABS template pictured above is just to help me make all those little nylon bits with the right dimensions/snap placement. Sorry for the confusion!

Thanks, guys! Great ideas. Tweezers did the trick for me perfectly. Man, being back at work after the holidays really slows one's progress. The Emperor's gonna be displeased. I have managed to make sure I get at least a small amount done each day, though. The biceps finished drying and are now complete. Woohoo! After that, I got the shoulder bells, chestplate and backplate cut out, trimmed and sanded. And the collection so far: Next, I'm gonna start on some strapping for these pieces, so I can get a feel for it before doing the ab section. I really like how Scimitar did his strapping, so I've been using his build thread as a model for my game plan. You can see it all here: Today, after spending an embarrassingly long time trying to untangle the spaghetti ball of velcro strapping and nylon webbing I had thoughtlessly stored together in a plastic bag, I measured and cut out a template for the male snap pieces that will be glued inside the armour, as modelled in Scimitar's build. That's as far as I've gotten for now. Next I'll start hammering snaps into nylon and test-fitting. :-)

Thanks so much, everyone! We are getting there! :-) I used the screws that came with TrooperBay's helmet kit - I never realized they were different sizes from yours. Whoops! If it's an important detail, I'm sure I can swap them out with the ones you sent without too much trouble. I decided on slightly rounding the cover strip corners with sandpaper and glued them in place. I also closed up the biceps and left them to dry. Once the glue dried, I cleaned up the biceps and cut, sanded and glued the outer cover strips. Meanwhile, my forearms had finished drying meaning they are 99% finished. Woohoo! All I have left to do is remove the E6000 that squished out from underneath the cover strips. Does anyone have any good suggestions for doing that? I don't want to scratch the armour, but my fingers don't seem to be enough and toothpicks aren't strong enough. Next I'll be cutting out the shoulder bells, and then the chest and back pieces. I'm thinking about creating and installing the strapping for the shoulders and arms after that, followed by the ab/kidney/butt plate assembly, and then lastly the legs. I'm theorizing that having the torso section finished will help fit the thighs properly. Is that right, or am I overlooking something with that project outline? Thanks for your input, all!! Talk soon!

Hi, everyone! Hope you all had a great weekend. I was away visiting family for the last couple of days, so not much progress since Friday. I did get my biceps trimmed up, though, and started gluing them together using scarp ABS as inner cover strips. I also was able to move on to the next stage of gluing the forearms, which was closing them together on the other side (still with only inner coverstrips). Once those dried, my forearms looked like this: I tidied up the edges and sanded down the butt joint connection a little, and here are my forearms as they are now: All ready for pretty cover strips! I measured, scored and snapped them at 16mm (using those special Canadian millimetres ) My next question—is it better to round the corners of your cover strips, or leave them straight? Pictures seem to vary and I didn't find a specification one way or the other in the CRL. Thanks for your help, everyone! :-D

Understood! Thanks thanks. :-)

Thanks guys! Question! Following the trim lines on the bicep, one upper end is taller than the other. Should the bicep look symmetrical-ish once it's finished, or should I leave this shape how it is?

Excellent points in there, thank you! Today I finished up the TD! The glue dried on the front plate and I put the caps back on. I don't think I'll glue them for now. It seems like a nice spot to store car keys. I added the bends to the clips—much easier than I thought. All it took was a couple of pairs of pliers. Then I tightened the clips up, also using the pliers. You can see the difference here: And lastly I added the velcro! I didn't have any adhesive white velcro, so I just used a small amount of superglue and held it firm with a popsicle stick. And it's finished! That brings me to two completed pieces. We're getting there! Next, while the forearms dry, it's on to the biceps.

Thanks guys! Yes I did buy some magnets, twelve of them. :-) Another thing I may need some more of!

I love it here. Thanks! I heard a weatherman-turned-deity say that too!! :-) Update! I got my other forearm finished up. I had some strips of scrap ABS conveniently left over from trimming, so I used them as inner cover strips. I made sure to first sand the edges and points of contact to promote adhesion. And now I wait! I may need to buy some more clamps. Twenty doesn't seem like nearly as many as it used to!

I'll test that once I get home again! I haven't taken all of the return edge off of the elbow end, so that should open it up some more too. If needed, it sounds like 16mm or 17mm cover strips would be acceptable, so I'll keep that mind as a backup plan. :-)