Peregrinus
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Posts posted by Peregrinus
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Well, I said a while back what I considered to be the distinction between recasting and reproducing.
At the time TE made his mould from the inside of a screen-used helmet -- whatever was done to it and whoever else it or copies of it went to (legitimately) down the road, it was a reproduction of something that was, at the time, not available elsewhere. George and his legal team know of our use of helmets made from moulding one of his originals, and he doesn't care so long as the makers don't advertise publicly. Which is why he went after AA like a ton'o'bricks.
Recasting in the currently-discussed context is striking a mould off of a non-original reproduction (further modified or not) of an original prop -- i.e., profiting from someone else's work when that work is currently available elsewhere. If Meatstock had secured his own original helmet (or the use of someone else's) and struck a mould off of it to turn into a forming buck, that would put him in with TE, GF, AP, and so forth. As it is, no.
--Jonah
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They know me well at my local Ace Hardware. I spend a lot of time in the plumbing and electrical aisles. I always tell them, blank looks or not, and promise to bring in whatever it is the bits are for when finished. They love my force pike, and that something that's cobbled together from hardware looks so cool. They're fascinated by the idea of a $20 lightsaber.
--Jonah
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I'll second the idea of asking the legit makers if they have any reject helmet bits they'd be willing to part with for a discount, since you're going to be painting it. I want you to have your Shadowtrooper, and without bankrupting you, and with no stain on it.
--Jonah
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I know the 501st has no "official" stance on recasting, but my personal take is: once someone finds out something is a recast, how could they even possibly still consider getting it? I don't care if the price is good. This isn't a hobby for the impatient. Save up a bit longer and get one of the honest makers' offerings.
I don't rant as vitriolically as some on these boards about recasters, but I still feel pretty strongly about it.
Luis, are you getting it from Meatstock, or from someone who bought it themselves some time ago?
--Jonah
(P.S. Ease up on the punctuation, there. One or two are plenty to get the point across. *heh*)
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I'd suggest getting some black panty hose and cutting out little bits to glue down inside the holes, and then back those up with wire mesh if you feel they need more structure to them. Alternatively, take some plastic strip, paint satin black, and glue behind the holes -- leaving a millimetre or two for air to pass. Then back up with black panty hose to prevent any light bleed.
I'm still working on alternative "invisible" mounting rigs to help bolster the illusion.
--Jonah
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I'm working on one of my unstarted faceplates now to show where the centrelines of various features are -- chin grille, frown, nose, goggles -- to show how they don't line up. Not to mention the traps and tears and aerator shrouds are different sizes/shapes from one side to the other.
--Jonah
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Thanks, Paul. That's the thread I was looking for earlier and couldn't find.
--Jonah
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Fair enough, but -- from either of those -- what am I asking for/looking for? In looking at the first site, I found three or four that looked correct-ish...
--Jonah
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Which is the one used for edging the ROTJ armour?
--Jonah
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When it occurred to me to think about it, I preferred to think that Luke and Leia's innate Force-sensitivity, and Han's probably-Force-derived uncanny luck were warping those 'Troopers' perceptions and causing them to miss just enough. It wouldn't have been enough to defend against a point-blank, carefully-aimed shot, but the hastily-snapped-off shots of a running firefight can be nudged astray by the strong Force-assisted desire to not be shot.
This is also how I explain Luke making it to the end of the trench. He was even throwing his dad's aim off. Look how badly Vader overcorrected when he was aiming low and then hit Artoo. *heh*
--Jonah
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Wish I had video of Han and Chewie doing the Young Frankenstein "Puttin' On The Ritz" act from Celebration III...
--Jonah
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In the PS2 version, at least, you can only play as a Stormtrooper, Navy Commando, or EVO Trooper. Finished the game and I'm going back and picking up the holocrons I missed. A lot here for Special Ops, Sovereign Protectors, BikerScout.net, and the Armored Cavalry Division, but so far, all the otherwise standard Stormtrooper armors but the plain white ROTJ Stormtrooper have Clone bits. I'll have pics to post in the next day or two.
--Jonah
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"It's 'Frahnken-SCHTEEN'!"
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Right, but not all the NPCs are unlockable costumes. And I don't know of any cheats that give you all the holocrons...
--Jonah
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More of a mishmash than that, after looking closer. Thighs, knees, and forearms are TK. THe rest is probably TC. The helmet is a clone helmet around the top and back, with no mohawk, and a TK faceplate.
I recently finished on Felucia, but I didn't get any good grabs of the 'Troopers there. I've got over half the holocrons now, but none of them are of the Felucia Stormtrooper Commander (yet). Or the Shadow Guard, Senate Guard, Temple Guard, EVO Trooper... *heh*
--Jonah
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Having had a few days to look at what I have and ponder in light of the discussion and advice here... I'm going to keep working on the one I'd already cut apart. Once it's done and we can all see how it looks. At that point I'll make a choice about the other two. Can that be an acceptable compromise for the time being?
--Jonah
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Brian, thanks for your concerns.
I really only bought one MR CE so I could fondle it and examine it in person, see how it compares to the TE2, its suitability as a guide for potential mods -- either way... That sort of thing. And I know from the MR CE mod threads that I can then fix it into something closer to the look of the original. That one, I'm going to paint red and use for my Royal Guard Stormtrooper armour.As for the concerns over my brutalizing the TE2s... They're accurate, not that expensive, easy to work with, and Tony's a sweetheart to work with. But I don't consider it a movie-TK holy grail. If that were my aim, I'd have gone for a TE HDPE or Dan Laws' new offering.
Thank you all for helping me think this through, though.
More WIP pics forthcoming. I have a roll of film to finish and develop first.--Jonah
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Does FISD have a song like Manchester United???
We're the 501st, and according to EU fluff supposedly all (or almost all) still comprised of Jango clones. But I don't lnow if Kaminoan or Coruscanti. Vode An may or may not be in our songbook...
--Jonah
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Being in a position myself a couple years ago where I was hospitalized for three weeks and almost died before they figured out what was going on and got it turned around, I know what it's like on the person it's happening to, as well as to their friends and loved ones.
May she get people who know how to find answers and think flexibly, and may she find the strength and support to come through and reclaim her life at the other end of this.
I'll wish for her, as I did for me, that Dr. House could be called in to consult...
*brotherly hug*
--Jonah
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Brian and Andy... I got the TE2s with the intention of "truing them up" so they were balanced before the MR CE came out. I already spent the money, have them, and love them. I was already underway in the modding when the MR CE came out. There were options available for a symmetrical (or at least as nearly as we can do without CAD/CAM setups), but I wanted to start from a base as true to the original as possible (no TE v. GF debates here, please...).
When the MR CE came out, it threw a spanner in the plan. I could get some of those and mod 'em to fix the errors, but then what would I do with the TE2s I already had in hand? I'm not such a slavish fan of screen-accuracy that I feel the need to reproduce the mistakes and shortcuts, too, for my costumes. I've already described my "more-accurate-than-the-film-version" costuming philosophy elsewhere on this and other boards -- and drawn both flak and praise for it.
What this is boiling down to is whether I should continue with my original plan or abandon the TE2s and get some MR CEs to mod instead. What I love about the TE2 isn't its asymmetry -- it's the close lineage to the original prop. I wanted to start with something pretty much the right size and shape and go from there... And that's something I don't really know if I'd say the CE has. It has its own set of things that are "off" about the details. Too many things that are the wrong shape, even if just by a little.
And if I do decide to switch to the CE, what do I do with the TE2s? I love them and don't want to resell them. I'd rather build them up and wear 'em.
I apologize again for the whinging. I know this is my thread, and I'm making a pretty key choice here in how I go forward with these helmets, but it still probably isn't how you'd spend your time on here.
I mainly need people to offer feedback and dissenting opinions, so I can clear up my own confusion.--Jonah
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That doesn't surprise me. Problem is that the asymmetry means you can't just take half and mirror it. It needs to be reworked dynamically to preserve the overall look. That's why the CE's frown looks so off.
I want to make this so one has to look two and a half times to be sure whether it's symmetrical or not, and not draw notice as being glaringly different when next to other TE2s. Heck, the frown tweak is a matter of an eighth of an inch, and that's the most easily-spotted alteration...
And Paul, I like to say we're making 1:1 action figures.
--Jonah
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Mark, I do, in fact have one faceplate partially done. Chin cut off, teeth cut off, reworking the openings for the teeth in the upper and lower faceplate sections, tears cut out and ready for reworking...
(quick one with my phone)
And I want to cut up a TE2 so I can take one of the most accurate TK helmet recreations and use that as a starting point to fix the errors from the original sculpt -- basically doing on a personal scale what Master Replicas did with their MR CE (except with a finer eye to the details). This was planned before I even knew about the MRCE. It's not like I'd be cutting up an original prop.
I can understand the reasoning behind wanting to not change anything, though, if one was working at replicating the look of said original film prop.It's just...
A great many of the people who worked on Star Wars didn't "get it" and thought it would be only a marginal success -- if it didn't bomb outright. No one thought it would attract the attention and following it did. If they had, and if they'd had more time and money, I imagine (amongst other things) the sculptors would have taken a little more care in making sure things were even. There's some asymmetry in Vader's mask, and he's a major "face" character. They fixed that for Episode III. The stunt Stormtrooper helmet wasn't really ever meant to be seen close-up -- they were background heavies. Notice how they reworked the frown for the hero version. I can't imagine any military benefit to making Stormtroopers' helmets asymmetrical.
Mostly just thinking out loud here (as it were). I'm going to have symmetrical, idealized helmets for my other costumes. I want one for this costume. I know it's an unpopular view with a good chunk of this community, but I don't find asymmetry characterful -- it just seems sloppy to me. If I have an unmodded, asymmetrical TE2, it would just be a display piece, a replica of the film prop to show off, and I don't really do that sort of thing with props and costumes. I'd want to wear it.
I guess I posed the wrong question above: Should I abandon the TE2s and mod MR CEs; or continue with my original plan to mod the TE2s, even if it's a pain in the butt? The MR CEs would probably be easier to fix up, but the TE2 is a more accurate foundation to start from. My only problems with the stunt TK helmet are from below the goggles down and from the tube brackets forward -- brackets, tears, frown, cheeks and aerator shrouds. Everything else would be stock. *heh* Sorry for my lack of clarity on this. I'm still fumbling my way through the thought process, myself...
--Jonah
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Shortly after I originally posted this thread, the MR CE bucket came out and I faced some confusion. Been focussing on other costumes, most notably getting my TR ready to take with me to Dragon*Con. Spent a month on the other end of the continent. Now I'm re-settled at home and the dilemma remains...
I have an MR CE bucket now, myself. I was originally thinking of using it as a guide to "symmetricalize" my TE2s. Now I'm not sure. Fixing the asymmetry of the screen-accurate buckets won't render them non-elite-eligible, but they will no longer be screen-accurate. That both does and does not bother me. On the one hand, I want something that looks like what was seen onscreen, and on the other I want to fix the little production shortcusts, rush-job screwups, and other things that make most movie costumes look like crap close up.
It really bugs me that the frown is off-centre -- and asymmetrical, to boot. It really bugs me that the right and left aerator shrouds are sculpted entirely differently when you look at them. It really bugs me that the tube brackets on the ear pieces are completely different from one side to the other. See?
On the one hand I could mod some MR CEs, and finish the TE2s screen-accurate -- warts'n'all. On the other, I could go with my plan to use the MR CE as a guide for idealizing the TE2s. I'm just looking for opinions here, nd don't feel like making it a poll...
--Jonah
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EDIT: Here's the 501st Stormtrooper production art that's findable in the game as a "holocron" (200 production images scattered through the levels). There's also a "Commander" who wears a Sandtrooper's orange pauldron, ammo packs, and backpack.
To clarify the painting, the blue stripe up the forearms is along the raised ridge with the square holes in it. The inset in the backplate where the "O | |" is on a TK is still clone-styled, and is also painted blue, again as with the clone version.
These guys are in the first mission, where you play as Vader, and which is set not too long after Episode III. Thus the clone-style elbow pieces and belt, in addition to the backplate. You can't see too well in these images, but they have clone shoes, too.
Note also that the blaster is just stuck to his belt -- no holster. *cough* And you can see the helmet's going to take some serious customizing...
So far this is all I have grabs of for here. I haven't gotten to anything other than regular white Stormtroopers, but I haven't had much time to play yet...
--Jonah
FX Shoulder plates the ridge should curve which way?
in Assembly, Mods, and Painting
Posted
He's talking about the shoulder bells, not the shoulder straps -- the straps he refers to are, I'm assuming, the straps that hold the bells onto the harness. I seem to remember there being a direction to the "swoop", but I'll yield to someone who knows this part more concretely than I do...
--Jonah