fritzthefox

Well, while I have been waiting for my replacement bicep piece to arrive, I have kept busy be destroying other parts of my armor. Here is a minor crisis I created while working with the cover strips on my thighs. I mistakenly ran one strip all the way to the knee, and when I attempted to score and snap off of the excess plastic, it tore. Since I was low on ABS, I decided to replace the missing piece. This is how it looked: This was, by the way, my very first act of the New Year, so I am already feeling very good about the thirteenth year of the new millenium. After the obligatory grumbling, I marched off to the local store and picked up some acetone (readily available in the cosmetic department, along with a wide variety of other toxic chemicals women can put on their bodies. No wonder they buy so much perfume!) and a small glass cup. Combined with my plentiful supply of scrap ABS, I now had all the ingredients required to mix up some ABS paste, which I did. It only takes a matter of minutes for small shavings of ABS to dissolve in the liquid, turning it milky white. If you are patient and wait for some of the acetone to evaporate, it becomes a thick goo. It can also grow little strings (like the fiberglass paste used for auto body repair, appropriately called "Kitty Hair") and form squishy lumps and lord knows what else. It is just the sort of thing to bring out the mad scientist in you, and perhaps turn you into one permanently after enough exposure to the fumes. Anyway, don't use your good brush. Here's the same booboo after patching and sanding. Not perfect, but much improved, and will probably be undetectable after some plastic polish... The rest of my armor pieces have gone together without incident. One thing I have learned along the way is that it is best to ignore the E6000 that oozes out from beneath the cover strips until it dries, when it is much easier to remove. You can then simply slice along the edge of the strip with an exacto knife and peel off the rubbery glue in long strips. Here's my strip collection from the greaves. I would not be surprised if it made good catfish bait. Catfish love smelly stuff, and it is toxic enough they would probably not be fighting long.

It is worth considering that the unpainted ABS will yellow much faster than any paint, so even if you come up with a good match, it won't stay that way. I would either ignore it, paint the whole suit or bite the bullet and wait for the Canadian post. Or glue on the mismatched strips with a temporary adhesive so they can be removed and replaced when you finally get the good plastic. (If you have an inner strip, it can take the load).

TieRacer, what sort of plastic was your armor made of?

Here is sort of an interesting color experiment I performed, to test my previous assertions. I photographed some Testor Model Master paint colors alongside the decals I obtained from Trooperbay and T/MC. The samples were applied to a scrap trimming of my armor and shot in daylight (in the shade). The Pantone swatches are there for reference. Mike from Trooperbay, who thus far is the only person I have been able to contact who has personally color matched an original helmet, advised me that Gentian Blue (Pantone 287) was the best match for the original stripes. (Of course, as mentioned earlier, it was a ROTJ helmet, so it may not apply to an ANH helmet) Note that the Testor's French Blue is pretty much dead on Pantone 287, and not nearly as light as I have seen in online digital samples, so I believe I am eating my words about its being too light. (The paint is still wet in the photo, so it may lighten, but enamels don't color shift much when they dry, so it's probably close) I don't know if the Humbrol paint is lighter or not...I may have to grab some at the hobby shop next time I am up and try them. But overall I would say it is a great match. (The sample digital swatch that is passed around online, however, not so much.) Neither decal I have is a perfect match for Pantone 187. The Trooberbay decal is lighter and closer to Pantone 293. The T/MC decal is darker and a little bit more violet. The Blue Angel Blue paint is way off. In fact, I'm not sure it is all that great a match for the actual Blue Angels. Here's a photo of them that I took, too, with minimal color correction. So forget everything I said about Blue Angel Blue. It sucks.

I agree, they look matte. It would be very likely, since the colors used were intended for military models. That would certainly give them a tendency to underexpose. If I were the cinematographer, I would certainly prefer matte paints being used, to cut down on reflections. BTW, the camera metadata is still intact for both the above photos. They were taken under different conditions, so I would advise caution in jumping to conclusions about differences in the colors they indicate. The first photo was taken without a flash, the second with one, and both with different brand and models of cameras, under unknown lighting conditions. (Poor ones, to judge from the camera shutter and aperture settings). It might be interesting to comb through the reference pix metadata and see if any patterns emerge AFTER allowing for varied photo conditions.

I tend to agree. In fact, I would go even farther and say that you can't really make a definitive judgement about color at all, because it is entirely subjective. No two people will perceive the same color the same way, even if all other variables are the same. And they rarely are. The more you tighten your grip, the more it slips through your fingers, so to speak. That doesn't mean it isn't educational to try. My goal with this thread was not to establish a definitive color for the details as much as it was to discover the origin of the existing schools of thought on the topic. I was puzzled why the favored blue changed from a darker color to a lighter one. In that, at least, I think I have been partially successful. I know more now than I did a few days ago, anyway.

The stripes here DO more nearly resemble French Blue, at least when lit with sufficient light. Color balancing and bumping up the exposure of the second photo yields a blue much like the first photo, which seems very much like French Blue to me. I decided to look up French Blue's nearest hexidecimal equivalent, and dropped it into Photoshop and then had the color picker select the nearest Pantone match. You know what it returned? Pantone 287. Which, it appears, also goes by the name of Gentian Blue, so I guess they are equivalent. Trooper Bay's matching efforts DO appear to support French Blue. It is interesting to note that Blue Angel Blue is a color that hangs within the same Pantone color range (PMS 280) as French Blue. So it appears as if the only real question is not so much the hue of the stripes, but the brightness of them. And that is VERY dependent upon camera and lighting conditions, as well as the age of the paint/decal. It appears to me that the choice of French Blue or Blue Angel Blue/Midnight Blue is largely dependent upon whether you want your helmet to appear as it does in person, or how it appears on film.

Hmmm. Well, color me skeptical about the French Blue tube stripes. I contacted Mike at Trooper Bay, and he feels that the best match based on his color matching efforts is Gentian Blue. Gentian Blue is PMS 287, which is very close to Old Glory Blue (in the Pantone 280 range, the color used for Post Office boxes in the US), which has the same federal specification (The Feds have their own color matching book, which is often used for reference by model builders) as Blue Angel Blue (FS15050). Humbrol's Midnight Blue is a very close match to Testor's Blue Angel Blue. I am hoping to contact Jez and see if I can learn what numbers he came up with. No word yet. I don't know where the French Blue idea came from, but it seems to be rather light in comparison to what I've seen on the screen. Film and photo are secondhand images subject to the vagaries of exposure, so it is possible that the screen images appear different than in real life. I am sure the all-white, glossy uniforms of the TK's gave the photographers fits, and may have forced them to underexpose. Or it could be that someone matched a faded helmet. Enamels weather pretty well, but the film helmets were subjected to both desert sun and harsh studio lighting, as well as thirty years of age, so they may have significantly faded. Certainly ESB/ROTJ decals would have suffered. So who is to say? Ultimately, I guess it is up to the armor builder to decide if they want to mimic the screen or the actual prop. Curiously, the decals I ordered from Trooper Bay did not really match PMS287 in my Pantone book, probably because that was as close as his vinyl supplier could get. The decals T/MC provided me were closer, but a bit too dark. I have yet to find a decal that seems right to me. I think painting the stripes will be the best way to achieve accurate color.

I ended up adding some 3M double-sided tape, and it worked much better than the Gorilla tape. Problem solved. Thanks!

I honestly cannot see any color difference in the photos above, which leads me to believe it is either too subtle for the camera to distinguish or a perceptual issue. (I've studied art for several decades and never cease to be amazed how much the mind can influence perception of color) The thickness of the plastic may vary considerably depending on the shape it was formed over...portions of the helmet are much thinner than others. It is conceivable that very thin pulls of plastic might experience some translucency. Perhaps you have perceived differing thickness and backlighting as a difference in color/plastic? If that is the case, simply assembling the helmet and/or painting the interior would render the entire helmet equally opaque.

Hey, I've padded my helmet with some foam scraps that I stuck in there with some Gorilla Tape, but the tape does not adhere to the foam very well. I don't really want a permanent bond, since I anticipate eventually replacing the foam when it gets funky, but I would like to mount it a little more securely. I want to avoid glues like the E6000 (which I am sure would work fine) because I really don't want any adhesive smell in my helmet. Anyone have any suggestions?

Sorry, no photos just yet. I have temporarily sworn off all attempts to use tools of any kind (Except this computer, which never does what it is supposed to do, anyway). I have recently proven incapable of using even the simplest of tools...even my trusty clay-sculpting thingamajigger, which recently added insult to injury by flicking a small glue ball up my nose. E6000 somehow smells even worse when it is lodged in your nasal cavity, yet still retains all of its legendary adhesive properties, so I am interpreting this as a sign that I need to make some sort of sacrifice to the gods before resuming work on my armor. And probably buy a face mask. Anyone have a small goat they are not using?

Unfortunately, my inner bicep is now so much scrap plastic. I mismeasured and cut off about 20mm too much. I'm hoping T/MC can sell me a replacement piece. It has become obvious to me through the course of my life that there are some days it is just best to not get out of bed, let alone attempt to make a meaningful decision or operate machinery. Unfortunately, the puritan work ethic that has been hammered into my head since childhood and my own impatience often get the better of me and I attempt to do things, anyway...always with predictably tragic results. I really think it would be a good idea to train a small parrot to sit on my shoulder and squawk, "Are you sure?" every time it sees me pick up a power tool. I would rather have bird poop all over my back than be full of self-loathing.

I found that a combination of clamps, magnets and duct tape works pretty well. (The duct tape is surprising efficient if you wrap a piece it around the arm). One of the pieces I use the heat gun (very sparingly) to bend a little bit inward, but I don't really think it did much. I think the biggest difference between success and failure for me was brute force...I have inner and outer cover strips on each join and I used LOTS of glue. It's pretty easy to remove excess E6000, even if it dries. For the closing seam, I glued one side of the strip down and let it dry before gluing it to the other side. I'm at a bit of a low point right now, too...I just trashed an inner bicep with a hasty cut. I'm so mad I really don't want to be in the same room with myself right now.

The tops of the thighs look like they may be giving you a little grief. Are they? Do you think they might be more comfortable if you trimmed then down a bit? How tall are you? (The last question is for my own benefit, since I'm building the same kit)

OK, while I'm waiting for my replacement decals to arrive, I thought I would take a moment to share with you the Most Useful Tool in my workshop thus far, aside from the versatile and occasionally scary Dremel. The MVP of my tabletop is this handy little thingamajig: I picked it up at Hobby Lobby for a few shekels intending to use it for its advertised function, which is sculpting clay. I rapidly learned that I am no better at sculpting than I am at applying decals, so it had been sitting unused until I began my armor project. Now it seems that there is no task for which it is not ideally suited. Want to shave a little ABS off of that cut? Works great. Need to scrape off some E6000 from a sloppy join? Easy. Need to peel off some stubborn vinyl decals that some idiot has put on backwards? Piece of cake. The thing is like an exacto knife and giant metal fingernail all rolled into one handy package. I can't recommend it enough. Whatever it's called.

Did Jez or Trooperbay happen to mention the PMS numbers of their color-matching efforts?

Oh, for pete's sake.

Well, after a great deal of teeth gnashing and price checking for replacement parts, I finally managed to get my forearm to stay closed. This involved copious amounts of glue and swearing. Along the way, I discovered a new form of torture involving palms and rare earth magnets, which is best performed very slowly. I used so much glue that the final result resembled some of the models I built when I was eight years old (or my caulking jobs as an adult), but thanks to the forgiving qualities of the E6000 glue, it cleaned up well enough. Here is a shot of the completed forearm, which I took for posterity since I am still not entirely convinced it will not spring open unexpectedly some day and fling itself beneath a passing bus. It hates me that much. Here is a shot of the same forearm after a little scrubbing and picking at it with a razor blade. A little armor polish and it should look just fine. In retrospect, I think one reason the arm gave me so much grief was my decision to trim the overlap on the inner half. The overlap itself was a simple shape that mirrored the curve of the overlap it mated to on the outer piece, but once removed it left an edge with a less cooperative compound curve. I did this for the sake of symmetry, but I think for the other arm I will trim from the outer piece, which should leave a flatter and more docile edge. I also have managed to complete my helmet, save for the headliner and a little polish. I used Testors spray enamel (Testors Grey 1138, or 1238 in the can, matches the decals very well) on vocoder and hand painted the ears and teeth. The kit came with some helpful vinyl masking, although my spray job managed to leech under it a little despite my efforts. An exacto knife and some fine grain sandpaper fixed that. For the rest, I used the kit supplied decals. I know hand-painting them would be more accurate, but I found painting the ABS with the enamel exasperating, and I have more faith in the durability and adhesion of the vinyl decals than I do the paint. The kit supplies some nice Hovi's, and the only problem I had installing them was trying to locate one of the screens that popped out of a mike tip and vanished into the clutter on my workshop floor. The decals were a breeze. Installing the neck liner made me want to cry. But, as I have learned so often working on this project, sometimes getting mad at it is the best way to make it work. Plastic seems to yield to brute force more often than my efforts at precision. (Unless it breaks, in which case it needed replacing, anyway) Here is a needlessly dramatic photo of my finished helmet, because I like my new camera.

The only things I would be wary of are fabrics (which may shrink while drying), temperature (cold temperatures may reduce the strength of the glue, even if it does not dissolve it, and the sudden temperature change may also be hard on the plastic) and any decals you may have. And, as mentioned above, buoyancy. Maybe try throwing a couple scrap pieces glued together in some cold water and see what happens?

I just bought a set. It is a great kit, and exceeded my expectations.

I thought I would chronicle my build here on the FISD forum, in hopes of lighting the way for other troopers or, more likely, to serve as an object lesson in what NOT to do. I was fortunate enough to start shopping for my armor around the time T/MC offered a batch of their excellent kits, and so I was not forced to endure more than a few weeks of nail biting before the big brown box arrived on my doorstep. I wish I had had the foresight to photograph everything in it, because the kit is remarkably complete, even including an instructional CD full of photos and tips to aid in assembly. I spent my first evening with our local garrison painstakingly trimming and sanding a hand plate for nearly three hours (narrowly avoided the nickname "handjob"). Eventually, my initial terror faded and I was soon making real headway. Several days, a pound of inhaled ABS dust and new dremel later, I had trimmed my armor. I thought the hard part was over. Ha. (The old PC case in the photo below served as a makeshift chair in my workshop while I whittled away at my plastic. It is as uncomfortable as it looks, although this is probably the most useful it has ever been.) The tedious process of gluing stuff together began. Before I could truly put glue to armor, though, I needed to make up my mind if I would be using overlap construction or the cover strip method. The majority of people in my local garrison have gone the overlap route, and it certainly seemed easier. But I am built like Ichabod Crane, so I knew I would need to do some trimming in order to walk without sounding like a tupperware salesman falling off a porch, and the cover strip method seemed more amenable to resizing. My kit also included plenty of spare ABS strips, should I choose to do so. It also seemed terrifying. Cut my laboriously sanded armor, the beautiful shiny white plastic that had me sitting by the mailbox with all the patience of a ten-year-old waiting four to six weeks for his sea monkeys? I just learned to use a Dremel! What kind of fool would do something so ambitious? I waffled over the decision forever, but over time I gained confidence with the score and curse method of cutting ABS and read more and more FISD posts until I, too, drank of the cover strip koolaid. A month ago, Brian Muir could have handed me a helmet and I would not have known it from a Rubies costume. Now I won't be complete unless I am ANH screen accurate. So I hacked into my forearms like an emo schoolgirl and glued on a coverstrip. So far, so good. Well, mostly. The E6000 lived up to its reputation as being both strong and forgiving to work with. What every glowing online testimonial to its virtues neglects to mention is that it smells like an unwashed yak, and now my house does, too. It is an odor that lingers throughout the curing time of the glue, which may be 20 to 30 years, judging from the rate of dissipation. On the bright side, most of the toxins have probably been absorbed by all the ABS dust embedded in my lungs, so I think I'll be OK. As you can see, the forearm is shaping up nicely. That is, it was, until I tried to give it an actual shape. As soon as I tried to close it, THIS happened: I tried clamping the armor and (carefully!) hitting it with a heat gun to take some of the stress out of the curve, and it helped a little, but it still will not lay flush. I bought some plastic weld and may try to bully the cover strip into place, but I decided to work on something less stressful while I mulled the problem over. Like the helmet. The helmet has actually been going very smoothly. I really like the eye pieces that T/MC supplied, which are nice and dark from the outside, but provide great visibility from within. I used the heat gun to gently shape them and stuck them in using the appropriately named "Sticky Black Stuff", a tire balancing putty. It works great, but is a little messy, and I spent more time wiping black fingerprints off of my helmet than I did sticking the lenses in. A note to those of you brave enough to try to heat shape anything: plastic under a heat gun goes from "Why isn't this working?" to "My god, what have I done?!?" in about .00001 seconds, so be very careful. More to come as the saga continues...

Thanks, Tom. Yes, the bowing of the forearms has been giving me fits. I'm a skinny guy, so I opted to trim them a bit, and the curves were already asking a lot of a 15mm cover strip. I ended up doing what you have done, using a 20mm inner strip (although I used acrylic, which I would NOT recommend. It is tough and flexible but rather brittle, making it hard to score and snap. I end up snapping off bits of it if I do not score deeply enough.) I also stuck a mailing tube under one of the forearm pieces as a form and hit it with a heat gun (with much trepidation). That helped a little, although the joins are still not as nice as I would like. The top cover strips are not wanting to stay flush. I am waiting for the glue to cure as I write this, but I'm not convinced it will hold the shape yet. It is turning into more of a battle than I anticipated. I may have to try a little ABS cement, or do more shaping. Or I may try your shim idea. I have some magnets. They are a constant source of amusement and finger injuries. Yesterday, I found three of them attached to a spoon in the sink while I was doing dishes.

Sorry, Lee, not trying to muddy the water. I think the favored Humbrol colors (or their Testors equivalents) are probably as accurate as they are likely to be. I was just curious. I've built enough models that I'm always on the lookout for historical reference. But, yeah, sometimes too much information is needlessly confusing. A man with one watch always knows what time it is, but a man with two watches is never sure.

There seems to be a pretty strong consensus about the best paint colors to match the details on the helmet and armor, but I am wondering precisely what the source of this information is? Does anyone know for a fact that specific Humbrol paints were used, or is this simply a guestimate based on viewing the movies (or, better, the actual armor)?