Dionaly

Count me in! Any word on a helmet sculpt? I'd love to have the full kit.

I check back in on this thread every 6 months or so, and let me tell you, I am literally dancing about the living room that someone is actually doing sculpts! It's like watching your baby take their first steps. Now where do I sign up?

Wow, I haven't been on here in ages. The CRL I wrote was just a guideline for what you'd have to consider when creating the first build. The real CRL would be written after a real-life representation was created and the detachment leaders can see what it looks like and if things need to be adusted to make the costume translate better into the real world. As far as references, I would say that the comic books should be considered primary material (as they are officially part of the Lucas Films Canon) and the statue as a secondary reference to confirm details that are unclear in the comic. Detatchment leaders are free to chime in with their own opinions though. I got the proto-CRL ready and I'm good with design, but I'm not a sculptor/armorer. (I would totally be up for helping though!) We really need one to step up and start seriously building the molds for the vaccum table so we can start seeing some Legacy Troopers!

She's super tall for her proportions, but that's the easiest stylization to account for in real-life costume design. (There's other tricks for accounting for unrealistic bust/waist ratios ala Jessica Rabbit but that's far trickier than just making the length-wise pieces shorter.) I would say that at least 2 sizes would be needed just because I am a tall curvy build (I could probably fit into a standard TK kit with only basic mods.) On the other hand, there are a lot of petite, barely over 5 foot women in the 501st/RL There's a height and width difference that would have to be accounted for. I'm probably above average in height and average in width, so if you made the standard "big" size my height with a little extra mod-able width, it would engulf a petite woman who was below average in both height and width. But I do agree that having extra material on the sides that could be cut down to size as needed is the only way to really make the ab plate fitted to each wearer.

My $0.02 on the whole latex versus ABS debate: Short Version: It needs to be ABS. Long Version: First off, would you consider doing a male version in latex? Mind you, the majority of Legacy Troopers are male. Jes Gistang and another unnamed famale are the only women we know of directly. So as we are planning the Legacy Trooper costume, men and women will have the oppurtunity to wear it, and you have to keep that in mind. Secondly, just because Jes has typical idealized proportions that shouldn't stop a normal woman from costuming her and using legitimate materials. By that standard, no Rebel Legion member would be able to costume any of the animated Padme costumes. You can acheive the same look of proportions through a few age old tricks. The easiest one is of course to make the chest plate bigger to make the waist look smaller. If you compare the male and female Legacy Trooper chest plates, you will clearly see that the female plate is MUCH deeper than the male plate. You can also exaggerate the curve on the sides of the plate so that is looks like the bust is much smaller than the waist. That being said, there are going to need to be a few more size varieties in the kits made to account for different sized women more than are needed for regular stormtrooper kits because the ab plate is so fitted. Lastly, if you look at the analysis that Darth Furious did, he estimated that the cross line across her waist was approximately 12 inches, which would be 1 half her total waist for a total of 24 inches. The picture does not account for depth, so I'd add about 4 inches to that for what her real waist measurement is. That 28 inches. That is my waist measurement. My waist to bust proportions match up pretty well with Jes's and I am also nearly 6 foot (5'10'') similar to Jes. While Jes is stylized to a certain extent, she isn't some unhuman goddess. My meaurements match up pretty well to hers so claiming her proportions are so unrealistic and can't be replicated properly with ABS is kind of a crock. And for more petite women, its just a matter of scaling the size of the armor pieces. Same for skinnier or chubbier women. *steps off soapbox*

Is there anyone working on a sculpt yet? There's a lot of pieces that have a lot of details already worked out and could probably be sculpted. I would love to see some progress. If you need a sculpt model I'm more than willing to vollunteer as I'm the one pushing this.

Giovanni found a sole that looks like a pretty good match. Should have a proto-type within a week or so.

Giovanni's been working on a prototype, but I don't know if there is any progress since the beginning of the summer. Has anyone worked on the helmet? Most of the other parts can be pretty easily sculpted now that we have some great close up shots. The helmet is the only thing that I think is still pretty complicated. Also, anyone got any comments on the proto-CRL itself? We need to get it finalized as we finish working out these details.

Okay, based on these new photos.... Excellent image of the hand plates. Those should be very easy now. I'm going to double check through all my research to make sure there's not an already existing style that matches. Also getting a better idea of the shape of the lower arm pieces. Belt on the figure definitely has 6 mini boxes in between the two big boxes in the front, which is more than I originally thought. But the mini box next to the big box above her left hip looks funny. Can't wait for even more pics to come out.

*poke* Any commentary on the proto-CRL?

And finally, face character variations for each member of the Joker Squad. Jes Gistang Hair Red/Auburn Style 1: Gelled or braided/cornrowed back Must end at neck seal If there is excess length to the hair it can either be gathered small bun at base of neck or hidden inside the neck seal Style 2?: Chin length bob with bangs Only seen in the GG statue's second head? Eyes Blue Weapon BB-23 Heavy Blaster Canon Armor Variants Gun power pack(s) White Slightly curved Optional for basic approval? She's only seen with them in battle as they are highly explosive. Anson Trask Hair Dark brown Style: High and tight with at least an inch of length at the top but little to no hair on the sides Eyes Blue Armor Variants Armor should be “shiny†Vax Potorr Hair Bald Eyes Black/unknown Hondo Karr Hair Blonde/light brown Style 1: High and tight with no more than an inch of length at top and moderate length on the sides Seen only while in a dress uniform not armor Style 2: Shaggy, shoulder length Eyes Blue Appearance Scar running down left cheek Weapon Vibro-knife Armor variants Armor is fully weathered/dirty Ran Harkas Hair Medium to reddish brown Well trimmed, approximately 1 inch of length all around Beard, mustache and side burns Eyes Blue Armor Variants Yellow stripes down all arm armor Armor is fully weathered Usually seen with belt boxes not drop boxes The other male Joker Squad members usually are seen with drop boxes. These are all of the Joker Squad members. There could possibly be other face characters from other squads that might have different variations. And there you go. That is all of my notes on the Legacy Armor. Let the discussion begin!

Last bit other than face character variations... the legs! Thighs In progress Almost identical to movie TC Detailing line down center front Back detailing? Ammo pouches? Okay, except for the fact that we don't have a good, detailed shot of the back of the legs to definitively tell if they have the "spoon" detailing like TC (and there are some pictures that would suggest that they do), I'd say that Legacy thighs are identical to movie Clones. There are some shots with TK ammo pouches along the bottom one thigh, but these would actually be impossible to move in with the new knee plate, so I'd say we should not allow TK style ammo pouches. Knee Plates In progress Hexagonal in shape Built in straps OR canvas/etc. straps? Attached to thigh armor OR strapped around knee? I'd be up for saying that for basic approval, the knee armor could come from Clone kit (as there are some shots of the armor that appears to have that central raised bit), for higher approval should be custom made and attached via straps to the thights. Lower Legs In progress Almost identical to movie TC Back detailing? Front detailing: Detailing lines at top to create V shape Single line continues from bottom of V to bottom of piece Slight point front bottom edge Bottom edge Side edges both have slight upward curve Top edge Side edges slope downward Again, excluding the fact that we don't have a good pic of the GG's back I'd say lower legs could come straight from a movie Clone kit. Boots In progress Similar to Clone Split treads We've got a nice build coming together for the boots. I'd be up for saying boots could be straight Clone for basic approval, custom boots for higher level.

Now then, torso accessories. Bear with me, I did all the belt measurements in proportions rather than exact measurements as those will probably vary greatly from a petite woman doing this armor versus a tall man. And there's like 5 different versions of the belt to make matters more confusing. The "standard" variation I used was Jes Gistang's belt. Any other version was seen as a variant. Belt Approximately 2 to 2.5 inches in height (Men’s can be slightly taller at approximately 2.5 to 3 inches, especially if using drop boxes rather than belt boxes) Rectangular boxes evenly spaced on the the belt 3 to front, 4 to back I had fun counting virtually every shot of Jes and this was the most consistent and made the most sense with the placement of the belt boxes and Jes's power packs. I would be open to 4 front/4 back since that is what the GG statue has. That's a decision we'll need to make Boxes are approximately 3/4 belt height wide (If doing the drop box variant, these should be only 1/2 belt height wide, as to make the boxes appear taller and narrower) Approximately 1.5 times belt height tall (Width is roughly consistent with drop box variant) As far as belt construction, we'll need to decide if it should be a leather(like)/cloth/rubber strip with a solid plastic bit over it to make all the rectangular bits (like the TK belt), or if the bits should each be attached separately. Belt boxes Placed on either side of the hips, aligned slightly forward of center-side on the belt Approximately twice the height of the belt tall Approximately 1.5 times the height of the belt wide Closure flap: Extends over the top and 1/3 of the way down the front, but does not cover the sides End of flap shaped like a chevron/flattened V-shape Blocky W-shaped detailing along flap edge? This is seen in many of the more detailed comic images, and I think its a very nice detail that should be included No drop boxes (Seen on some face character male versions) (Only seen with the taller belt version) As far as the drop boxes, I saw them on some of the male Joker Squad members but not on the various other Legacy Troopers running around. As far as which face characters, I'll have that later. Thermal Detonator In progress Attached to Kidney plate NOT BELT Located just under an inch above the top of the belt Approximately the height of the detonator below the bottom of the back plate. (Men’s version is located directly below the back plate as the back plate is longer) Grey tube with white end caps and center Box detailing along center top Detailing appears to be identical to TK but its not included enough in the artwork for me to know for sure.

Lower torso now... Abdomen Plate In progress 3 pairs of lines divide plate into 7 segments We'll need to decide if these are indentions, raised lines, etc. center segment contains a small box on top and a longer box on the bottom next pair of segments contains rows of small buttons/holes lined up along inner most pair of lines starts at top of long box? Next pair of segments contains 2 large buttons on left side Final pair of segments contains 2 small squares on left side Cod piece is triangular (Bottom nub sometimes seen on male variant similar to TK) Raised line down center front Diamond shaped raised detailing the bottom corner (Strap connecting cod piece to butt plate seen in some male versions) Fitted to wearer that means its not a straight piece but rather curves inward slightly at the sides. For the female version, its easiest to think of it fitting like an underbust corset: nearly straight front, very curve sides. Kidney Plate In progress Similar to TK? Female version is much taller to account for cut out of back plate Overlapped by chest plate (male version is much closer to TK) The most I've gotten as far as detailing is a pair of lines about 6 inches apart that make a box that ends down on the butt plate, but I'd say we wait until we have better pics of the back of the GG statue to confirm. Butt Plate In progress Rounded (Men’s version is slightly more angular, having a central square with a hexagonal shape curving slightly under the butt and 2 pentagonal shapes slightly curving to the sides--very similar to TC) Again, very hard to see any details to this piece other than the possible box shape. But it is very clear that there is a distinction between the male and female shapes.

And now we move on to the body Chest Plate In progress Overlaps Abdomen Plate Center cleft extends almost to top of plate the "pecs" on the chest plate are much closer to Clones, but with the depth of a TK along the bottom (approx 1.5 inches for male variant, 2.5-3 for female variant--in order to make room for a female chest). The combination of both definition and depth really sets this chest plate apart from others. Should be fitted to wearer biggest example of this is that the sides under the arm-holes should taper inward rather than be straight as in a TK Curved bottom line curve appears more dramatic on female build, but this might just be an effect of the armor having to be more fitted to a female wearer. Back Plate In progress Box protrudes from back plate with gradual sloping from the box to the edges of back plate on top and sides Bottom similar to TC but with the bottom curve cut out to show more of the kidney plate (Male variant is same shape as TC) This is kind of hard to explain with words. In the Legacy build like all the other Troopers, there is a back box. What makes the Legacy armor different is that on the top and sides of the back plate, the sloping from the box to the main armor ends pretty much at the edges of the armor. The bottom is similar to the Clone build as there is a slope of about 2-3 inches that reaches the main part of the back armor. The remainder of the space is a relatively flat piece that lines up with the kidney plate. (Though the Legacy armor does have a curve to the bottom line rather than a straight line) This is true for the male variant only. For the female/Jes Gistang variant, the back plate ends almost exactly where the bottom slope from the back box does. There is only a little lip of flat material along the bottom. This makes her curve along the bottom of the back plate very dramatic and noticeably higher than the chest plate's bottom curve Appears to overlap kidney plate Box must contain geometric pattern I have sketches of every major variation seen in the comic for reference. We'll need to decide on a single pattern Bottom curve is higher in back than in front As I mentioned above, for male variant this is slight, for female variant this is very noticeable. Under Suit Identical to TK Black Non-textured material No visible zippers or logos (Men’s uniforms sometimes shown with Vader style ribbing)

To round off the arm armor: Forearms In progress Back edge continues out into block shape around elbows Detailing? exact shape changes from picture to picture. My vote would be to go with the GG general shape with the TK "train-track" (for lack of a better word) pattern along the edge where it comes to a blocky point. As this edge is not visible from the current GG pictures, it may already have that detailing anyways. Hand Plates In progress Closest to ESB version TK? Clamshell shape? Corners sanded in? literally every single picture of the hand plates looks different. The GG statue has hand plates fairly similar to a simplified ANH version ones or even TC ones. On the other hand, images from the comics at one point show clearly ESB version ones and then also what appears to be ANH with smoother corners. So yeah, this section could use some work... Gloves Identical to TK Black Leather, rubber, nomex, or similar material woo! something that's easy!

And to continue, the next section is all pretty easy as it's exactly he same as the TK, but I'm posting it anyways to ensure we cover all the pieces equally. Neck Seal Identical to TK Black Horizontal ribs Fitted to wearer Shoulder Straps Identical to TK Fully affixed in front May free float in back Shoulder Bells Identical to TK (but not RotJ variant) Effectively symmetrical Raised rib down center of shoulder Biceps Identical to TK Fully closed

I'm going to break up the proto-CRL into pieces as to not overwhelm everyone with all 6 pages at once, and just post it here. My commentary is in red. Variants are in parentheses. I based the lists off of the TK CRLs. There's still a lot of question marks. I'm posting these proto-CRLs so that we can discuss and decide on some of the details. Here goes! For all pieces: • All armor should be lightly scuffed, but not fully weathered, except where specified for face character variants certain face characters have brand new armor or heavily weathered armor, that'll be in the last section First off, the helmet: HELMET In progress Closest in style to ESB TK style with added Clone elements? Traps and Tears Dark grey? Rear and tears have stripes? Added center back trap in white with stripes Lenses Narrow? Flat or bubble? Dark grey/smoke or black? Ear Bars Dark Grey? 3 or 4 bumps? Bumps painted? Screws? Frown Black Does not overlap teeth area 6 teeth cut out Grey mesh behind 6 cutout teeth alternatively the frown is grey with 5 black areas cut out Tube stripes Dark grey? 7-15? Counted the GG statue and got 15, counted various closeups from the comic, smallest number was 7 Curve points to the back Vocoder Black (Variant of white seen) Aerators Black (Variant of white seen) Tipped with mesh? White variant occurs together for Vocoder and Aerators, never 1 of each color Somewhere in there, the "cheek" shape will have to be addressed as well as the greater slope to the front of the helmet (as caused by the Clone-esque "cheeks.")

Finals, food poisoning, and graduation has put me off being able to work on this for a while, but I do have a lovely proto-CRL that'd I'd love to share, only I can't attach a word doc to a post. What's the next best thing that I can attach for everyone to enjoy it? PDF? RichText? Helmet details are still really foggy for me, so I'd vote we wait until better pics of the GG helmet come out to make decisions on that part. Most other parts I have some pretty good notes on.

I tried to upload the word document of my CRL notes, but it wouldn't let me. It's 6 pages, so I'd rather post it as an attachment unless no one minds the super long post. Any idea why I couldn't upload a .doc file as an attachment?

As far as writing the CRL, do we want to separate it into standard requirements and expert infantrymen/centurion? Like, for instance, I'd suggest having the large powerpacks on Jes's belt for a higher level of authenticity as she's not seen with them all the time, but they do have an big importance to the character. And for the boots, I'd actually say that clone boots are rather closer in design than TK boots. It's the elastic bits on the side that don't match up. That's just my opinion though. And I think the boot guy over on the CloneTrooper forums might just be making me a prototype custom boot for this build, which is pretty cool. I'm going to polish up a few things about my proto-CRL and upload it this weekend. I've got a few more sketches, too.

It's quite possible. We're working out the details. I'm writing the Jes Gistang CRL, but I have notes on all the members of the Joker Squad, so those at least are a good possibility. We'll have to see how this process develops.

Okay. Here's my preliminary sketches for the front torso parts. I'm pretty happy with the chest piece, might work on the bottom curve a bit more. The ab plate design I sketched is based on the most common pattern seen in the comic and then confirmed using the GG statue. There are 3 pairs of lines dividing the ab plate in "sections." The first is a very thin and shallow indention, the second is a slightly wider and deeper indention, and the third is a thick raised line. A final and fourth set of lines can be seen as the seam connecting the ab and kidney plates. Within the innermost pair of lines are a pair of boxes, a smaller one to the top and a longer one to the bottom. Just outside the inner pair of lines are a series of small black dots. On the GG statue they only start at the top of the bottom box and go down (5 on each side). On certain pictures from the comic they go the entire length of the piece (still 5 from what I can see). In the next further pair of segments there are a pair of larger white dots on the left side. These can be higher or lower depending on the shot (if they are present at all). In my sketch, I drew them roughly where they appear on the GG statue. Finally there is a pair of boxes (sometimes) shown on the furthest pair of segments, usually only only the left side, but occasionally on both (on a male version in that case). These two boxes are sometimes black and sometimes white. In the case of having them on both sides, they were black and appeared to be indentions or cutouts. Like the 2 dots, they tend to move up or down depending on the shot. The "cod" piece is fairly straight forward, though we'll have to standardize how exactly it should attach to the ab piece.

I've been trying to figure out what that shadow on the back of the helmet was for ages! That's an excellent shot. Nice work!

Aaaaaand some other Joker Squad pics that may or may not have shots of Jes: