Veedox
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Posts posted by Veedox
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Stephen: Will do on the velcro. I have plenty of industrial grade in both white and black. Going to add the velcro tonight. My TKboots haven't been worn much at all, so they aren't broken in, so, like you said, that might be the problem. They actually force my shins up the most. More so than the chelsea boots.
Here is a link to my flickr account with a few more pics:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15414984@N07/
I had another issue that I was unaware of during the photo shoot. I had added some foam on the sides in the helmet, which, due the the flexibility of the thin ABS, it makes the rubber brow dip down too much over the eyes when I stuff my head inside. I didn't have access to a mirror during the shoot, so I never knew.
Because of that, I think I'm gonna redo the shoot. I will still be adding more pics from this first shoot over the next couple of days, if anyone cares to look at them!
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SW1: That's a great idea that never crossed my mind. I usually find that additions like extra foam or velcro here and there never really work out, so I am trying to keep the strapping and such original and strictly screen authentic. However, I don't care for the Caboots and I think I will try that. Thanks for the tip. Did you have the same problem with your boots and shins?
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Thanks! My other boots are TKBoots and some vintage chelsea. All are painted with latex paint. Yes, my armor is 1mm TM. This shins are so light weight, that they easily get forced upwards by the boots. The Caboots are the only boots that allow the shins to stay in place. Never foresaw this problem as I never had this issue with the styrene armor.
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Yes I am in the armor.
The Caboots are 1 of 3 pairs that I own, but I am having some issues with the more screen accurate boots pushing up the shins
as I walk.
So, the Caboots, which don't push the shins up, are on until I figure it out.
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A rare, never before seen pose.
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ESB armor looks like ANH armor because it is ANH armor. They simply refurbished around a dozen or so ANH suits for ESB. The main differences would be: the handplates, and holster location/strapping on the belt.
So, YES, to answer your question.
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The sad fact is:
That guy who claims to have found the "original" suits in that archive garage is completely and utterly wrong. Those trooper suits were anything but original (maybe ROTJ) and look nothing like the original Sandtroopers in the film.
They are ROTJ recasts and the details are completely off. They stick out like a sore thumb in the added Dewback scene and it doesn't take an obsessed fan to clearly see that.
IT was a half assed attempt to improve the original film, like most of the other Special Edition additions/changes.
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Wow, quick look back in this thread - Paul's screen grabs in the Freezing Chamber scene.
Don't know how I missed those!
Forget these pics, now THAT'S smoking gun evidence!
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A quick visit to Jez's great website has shown that ROTJ shoulder bells are rounded on the bottom edges!
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Thanks Jez!
What I see in the red backed promo photo:
The trooper on Vader's right is clearly an ESB trooper, just a refurbished ANH suit with the new handguards, new helmet details and black mouth.
The trooper on Vader's left has a squashed look helmet, 4-5 holes in the mouth, very, very bubbled eye lenses which says ROTJ to me.
Also, you can barely see the edge of his shoulder bell, which looks rounded on the lower/inner edge, again that's a ROTJ feature, right? (I'm not sure)
I can barely make out edging strip on the chest piece side, the ab details are upside down, the handguards have no stitching lines... These are ROTJ tells.
All in all, if this pic is from 1980 or earlier, it's weird!
Jez, what you call Holiday Special HERO, what do you mean by Hero? As in ANH Type Hero helmet - wider, three holes in smaller mouth, low brow or something else?
Good spot on those similarities Veedox - having them pointed out to me does suggest that both photographs were taken on the same day.I also dont think that Getty images would have got the date wrong - that kind of stuff is their livelihood so it does suggest 1980 and a very difficult question that I cant currently find an answer to
To me the red-backing promo photo is just one of the ANH/Holiday Special Hero's but can understand why others don't agree.
I think I know who has the answer (part of the production team) but it's not the easiest to get the information from him.
Can I also say that I'm really enjoying this thread!
Cheers
Jez
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So, then, who says the pics were from 1983? Only Jez?
Maybe Getty does have it right and Jez's date is wrong?
The red promo photo does seem to be a smoking gun type evidence.
You know what might shed some light on this matter is the 'Making of ESB' book coming out next Spring. That is, if it's thorough enough.
It's possibe the date could be wrong but, there is no denying the date was 1980 when the red-backed photo was taken with Vader and the two troopers, one of which is ROTJ. We know for a fact that photo was part of the Topps trading cards back in 1980, proving that ROTJ style armour was around the time of ESB. -
To me, it is clear BOTH of these pics are from the same photo shoot, at the same time. The trooper with the jacked up calves over the boots in both pics is proof enough for me. Especially the same hiked up left calf. Really, I doubt that would happen twice exactly like that.
Also, the hiked up calves trooper is on Vader's right in both pics.
Also, also, the left shoulder bell on the trooper closet to the camera is hiked up too and is exactly the same in both pics.
Too many similarities to be taken 3 years apart.
What is not clear is the date these were taken. 1980 or 1983? GettyImages could have it wrong... Just saying.
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I don't know what your aim is on this build, but your exacting attention to detail is actually making your armor inaccurate.
Don't get me wrong, your build/execution is fantastic.
However, it's too perfecting to be screen accurate. The original suits were sloppily assembled, things didn't line up perfectly, sniper knees didn't perfectly conform to the shins, etc...
So, what I am trying to say is: If you're going for an accurate suit: DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. Your sniper knee is perfectly fine in fit. So what if it's slightly wavy!
If you're going for an immaculate armor build that looks extremely clean, but not necessarily screen accurate, then, well your sniper knee is wavy. (I wouldn't heat it again, it will get worse.)
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Clearly you missed (or chose to miss) the point I was trying to make.
It's funny the things you choose to point out and the things you cleverly dodge while continuing your pointless and childish attacks.
As far as TM helmets being re-casted: That's for TM to address (if he chooses to) as you have proven nothing so far.
This witch hunt that you are on is not the search of truth, this is to publicly discredit someone.
Good. Finally good to see someone with the balls enough to be able to admit it to themselves..
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Pot calling kettle black.
GINO YOU ARE JUST AS MUCH OF A RECASTER AS ANYONE ELSE.
Really tired of this deluded personal ownership of the Stormtrooper you are taking as if you are the only authority, you are the only one with rights to reproduce helmets, from your PURCHASED pristine molds - RECASTED from original helmets - PURCHASED by someone else.
You have absolutely no right to take this stance. Everybody has dirty hands in this hobby. Better believe it.
But this thread isn't about YOU is it, no, it's about TM's rotten, dirty, recasted helmets, huh.
Well, then, EVERYBODY, let the record show:
TM's helmets are recasted! Gino's are too! So are AP, TE, TE2, Meatsock, and so on, and so on.
Know what? I don't think anybody really cares except you.
Some people are just thick. I said way earlier, some will remain unconvinced regardless. It is inevitable in situations like this.Whether the bump is there or not makes no difference. It WAS there on an earlier version. Perhaps it was removed when he did further clean up. I don't know. It's not important why anyway.
If you can't tell it's the same face, there is no hope for you. Good thing you aren't builders because your props would suck.
As far as me not contributing. The problem with most costumers is that to them, their measure of whether someone contributes, is if they are selling them stuff.
What they don't realize is most of the knowledge you have or the pieces that you run around in were provided to you by people like me. Either directly or indirectly.
The reason I don't sell stuff is because of douchbag recasters and their supporters. Why share it just so they can rip you off and recast your stuff. Screw em. Let them make do with whatever crap pieces they can get their hands on. The good stuff would be wasted on them anyway. They have no appreciation for it. As long as they look good for little kids right.
This whole debacle is not about the measures of recasting, not about whether you agree with my perspective on the hobby, whether or not I think you are a douchbag or not (I probably do).
It's about the FACT that TM lied about where his helmet came from and that does damage to the clarity of origins of fan made stuff in the public arena.
Nothing you say is going to change that, so you might as well start accepting it.
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TM armor in action!
Please ignore the crazy "jedi" guy/. just scary...
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Wow, you actually know what no one has ever known about?
So which real ANH suit have you been inspecting to find out about these details, or are you just using reference pics like anyone else?
I am really interested to know because I have studied these suit's (from reference pics) for many years now and I believe there is nothing new I could learn about the exterior of the ANH suit's. Making claims like you are is typical of yourself. Let's just hope that your armour speaks louder than you do
Maybe we'll see Gino's glorious completed ANH from ROTJ suit, in like.... 2077, just in time for the 100th Anniversary of Star Wars!
It takes a LONG time to reproduce screen props on a sub-atomic level.
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I could have swore that I heard you (or others) claim that you had the most film accurate anh style suit.
I was saying that even pure rotj armor with no anh specific details is still closer to film accurate anh suits than anything scratch built.
And yes, I look forward to showing those details off including some ones that I know no one has ever known about.
I am saying that TM armor is the most film accurate ANH style suit available. And I will stand by that even against recasted, back-engineered ROTJ armor.
But, what do I know?
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Anything scratch built will always be at the bottom of the barrel in terms of screen accuracy.
Even the best sculptors in the world could not duplicate the surface nuance found on the original armor. Size and proportions, maybe but that's all, and I don't think the TM suit did that very well either.
Adding anh specific details does not compensate or equal out the fact that it is scratch built.
TM armor might look good in photos and have some of these details (although not recreated accurately), but when each piece is compared to the real stuff it totally does not hold up to close inspection.
If all you've ever had was an GF/AP or TE, a lot of the originality has already been removed through means of clean up so is probably not the best comparison. However...
The suckiest worst recast set of rotj armor you could find, would still have better lineage and be more film accurate than anything scratchbuilt. Period.
Since there was never a set of original anh armor cast, the best anyone could ever hope for is an anh style set made from very carefully, minimalistically, and accurately, reverse engineered rotj molds.
That's what I'm doing. But don't judge what I have now as it's not completed, but when it is done, it will be as close as anyone could possilbly get to screen accurate anh armor until an original anh set is cast.
So, Gino, photos only lie when they support your opinion. TM armor looks "good, or accurate" in photos because it IS.
And how would you know if it isn't? Do you have genuine ANH armor sitting around at home to compare TM armor part by part to? Do you even have TM armor or even inspected a set in real life?
NO and NO are the answers to those questions. So, even though I can only compare TM armor to ANH photo reference to base my opinion, the same can be said about you.
And lets address the numerous missing parts (an entire forearm, leg halves, shoulder straps, sniper knee etc..) from your pristine molds. I suppose those would have to be SCRATCHBUILT to make an ANH suit.
Those entirely scratchbuilt parts would then reduce your suit to "the bottom of the barrel" status wouldn't they?
Let's also not forget the molded in joining strips and ab details that would have to be removed from your pristine molds. The mere fact of having to remove those, altering your pristine molds making them not so "accurate" anymore. And that oh so ANH accurate ROTJ belt, let's not mention that has to be remade too.
ROTJ armor is recasted ANH armor. It is shrunken, shaved and many details were changed or lost.
I don't have access to ANH armor. Nobody else does either. All I know is that TM armor, when compared to numerous ANH trooper photos, at every angle matches up. Which is more than I can say for the TE I owned.
Until ANH armor shows up in private hands, a scratchbuilt approach is the only viable way to recreate ANH armor. Using ROTJ armor as a starting base just isn't a viable option as it is so far removed. It's like making a Porsche from a VW beetle. Same lineage, very different cars.
Just my opinion.
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These "promo" pics, orginally posted by Veedox on the RPF, are what sealed the deal on my decision to pick up a TM kit.
This armor is... how you say,.. the shiznit?
Let me say that I originally owned a high gloss styrene TE suit for about two and a half years before selling it in favor of my TM.
It was one of the last suits TE made. I requested that it be made up to resemble a "hero" suit (helmet). It is a nice suit, but every single part deviates from an ANH suit in some way or another.
This is due to it's tour suit and ROTJ origins. Also the resculpted bits aren't recreated very faithfully.
I actually owned both suits for about 2 months simultaneously and I can say confidently that part by part, the TM is superior, in both ANH accuracy and overall quality.
The fact that I promptly sold my 'rare' glossy TE should tell you how much faith I have in the TM sculpt.
Again, if you want hyper accurate ANH/ESB armor. TM is the way to go. If you want an accurate, yet incomplete ROTJ suit, Gino is the way to go (not counting the helmet).
Like Daetrin said, it is ironic that the armor that is sourced from ROTJ (TE, TE2, GF, Gino) has to be heavily modified to look like ROTJ again.
In the end, with these armor sets, they all end up looking like no particular suit on screen. They don't look like ANH/ESB or ROTJ...so, what's the point?
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Doesn't this belong in the armor history thread.
Ehh, I originally wanted to post this in there, but really, this isn't a history lesson, it's more about TM armor.
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If you want shrunken, semi-complete, yet-accurate-for-what-is-there ROTJ armor, then Gino is the man to go to.
If you want extremely accurate, complete ANH armor, then Troopermaster is the man to go to.
AP, TE2 or Gino cannot claim to be ANH accurate and never will (Gino may try). All their armor is gleaned from an incomplete ROTJ suit with TE2 having mixed in tour suit parts.
ROTJ armor has been 1x removed from ANH armor, there are too many changes to it to make it a viable source for ANH armor. Virtually every part have been altered in some way. Add to that the missing parts, which either have to be re-sculpted or just duplicated in the suit.
With that said, one can figure that even though Paul's suit is 100% original sculpt, the others (Gino, TE2, AP) are no more ANH accurate than Pauls.
With those suits mentioned missing MANY ANH tells and features, one could also figure that they (Gino, TE2, AP) are LESS ANH accurate than the TM. Despite the partial "screen used" ROTJ source.
Promotional Stormtrooper
in Build Threads Requireing Maintenance
Posted
Paul :
The Caboots are tighter at the top than the Loakes. Also, never thought to leave the last strap undone. I will try that before resorting to velcro. Though, I don't think that will solve it.
Really, these new shins are just so light that they are easily displaced with any ankle movements, and they want to move upwards and slip off the boot as I walk. Especially the chelsea boots, which aren't as tall.
I really hate it, because I cannot easily bend over to fix them when I am in the suit. Just because it's flexible doesn't make it any more comfy to wear!