Dutch Weapon Law Restrictions

[Merugear]

As my interest in the 501st and Star Wars increased, I came to an inevitable point where one is looking to make his own blaster.

Being the law-abiding citizen that I am, I first contacted the ministry of defence regarding the use of replicated star wars weapons in everyday life and check on the legality of walking around in white armor, carrying something that looks like a sci-fied Sterling SMG.

 

This is the mail I got returned (translated):

 

As a response to your mail, I give you the following:

 

In your e-mail you indicate that the question at hand is about replica weapons. The Dutch Weapon Law is divided into categories. These [replica] weapons are mentioned under Category I under Article 2 of the Weapons and Ammunition Law. These weapons are extremely illegal. You yourself have indicated that George Lucas used old WWII weapons as a base, and added some 'greeblies' to make them more sci-fi like. In essence, these weapons remain WWII weapons (commonly called Category II in Article 2 of the Weapons and Ammunitions Law) and replicas of these fall under the category I of the Weapons and Ammunitions Law.

 

I hope to have provided you with enough in formation.

 

Now this is what I sent back:

 

Dear ____________,

 

Isn't it according to Article 4 of the Weapons and Ammunition Law that these specific replicated weapons, used for promotional purposes for The Fighting 501st, not being able to fire projectiles or are able to be used as a projectile weapon, be they made of wood, resin or plastic to show resemblance to screen-used movie props, are allowed due to the fact that Article 4 states:

 

The Minister may by or under this Act or prohibititions free or, upon request, waive the described weapons or ammunition, belonging to one of the following groups:

• a. weapons that are not suitable for use as such;

• b. weapons that show the character of antiquities;

• c. other weapons, where they are for or part of a collection or wall decoration;

• d. ammunition, were they intended to or part of a collection;

• e. equipment and objects for professional purposes;

• f. sample, demonstration or test equipment and props;

• g. Emergency resources and related ammunition

 

That these weapons are allowed to be used for demonstrational purposes, or in the role of a prop during a live-action performance of The Fighting 501st, should they be crafted from wood or plastic with resin addisions in order to make them look more like the props of the movie? It basically is a role play being performed in public and at events and such.

 

Also:

This product is wideley for sale in retail stores all over the Netherlands, being advertised as a Stormtrooper blaster. The main design is based on a Sterling SMG from WWII, and with a few resin-parts is able to be transformed into something that looks very much like a screen-used E11 blater.

 

According to the Weapons and Ammunitions Law this product shouldn't be in the retail circuit at all I reckon? Due to the fact the Law is indifferent on the paint scheme the replica or weapon is painted.

 

The reason for this curiosity is mainly for myself to prevent me from making a possibly illegal mistake. Due to the globalisation of the market, and not to mention differences in export laws, I wanted to make sure I wouldn't get my hands on a potentially illegal object by accident. (sounds better in Dutch )

 

Being the fan that I am, I'd really love to find a legal possibility to carry these kinds of props to events organised by The Fighting 501st costuming group.

 

How to other re-enactment groups cope with this Law? I saw a lot of Dutch costuming groups who clearly had demilitarized weapons during their events and activities.

Is this a matter of condonement?

 

Best regards,

 

Vincent

 

I also sent a mail to one of the larger historical re-enactment groups, and this is what I got back:

 

Our members own weapons that are modified to shoot blanks. Our members asked a waive for these at the police/justice department.

Replicas are absolutely very illegal in the Netherlands.

 

So right now I want to know the standing on plastic retail-sold blasters with resin-cast accessories on it painted black!

It's not a working replica or whatever... It's a piece of plastic with a soundboard and some resin on it.

 

Anyways, I'll keep you guys and gals updated on the wonderful world of legalese.

[Dargas[501st]]

now ain´t this a bummer!

 

 

has anyone other members had this kind of problem?

 

Vincent, you should also very straightforwardly state that these "replicas have no actual working parts! the are Unnable whatsoever to shoot anything at all.

 

perhaps that´ll help to get a permission.

[Merugear]

Well the thing is, posession of any sort of weapon at all is considered highly illegal. Owning a replica can be used for threatening people with, and since it happens a lot in the Netherlands, this law was instated.

[Dargas[501st]]

I can see the logic in that... hmmmm

[TK-2126_MD[TK]]

I think the best thing u can do is as for a meeting with your local police department. Letters come and go, i can almost garanty that your first letter was the topic of the day in the ministry of defence. And not in the good sence. They are going to take it as joke and it is easier to say no or send u the Chessy first letter they sent. I am pretty sure that the second letter they send back will be just as lame. A face to face is the best thing u can do. Go talk to the cheif or to the legal officer of the department. Ask for a seconf meeting so that u can show them the blaster.

Letters arnet what they used to be........

[TK-J]

Australian Federal gun laws are also very restrictive, however it seems to vary from State to State. The possesion of any replica which is deemed to be a threat by any citizen is illegal. When in costume we have a certain amount of leniency given, but if the replica is waived or pointed in a threatening manner, then we would be arrested and prosecuted. We can apply for licences to import and posses these items, but they are never supposed to leave the home.

[TomaToNOR[501st]]

Have you heard with the Dutch outpost/garrison (not sure which they are... )? They already have blasters, so they might have some good insight on this.

[Smitty]

God Bless the USA

 

The right to bear arms kicks butt regardless of whether they fire hot lead or make believe imperial blaster bolts.

 

Good luck in yer struggle!

[Dmian]

Well, I truly understand the reply they sent you Vincent.

Let's see, because, as you said, our globalized world tend to confuse us a little.

 

* First I want to say that I'm no expert in the field, I just happened to investigate a little and gathered some knowledge about this matter, but it's very probable that I make mistakes and say things that are not accurate or entirely true. Always check for yourselves.

 

The way weapons and replicas are handled in USA, Europe and even among different European countries varies greatly.

First of all, we have to make a difference between civilian weapons and military weapons. Self-defense pistols, guns and hunting rifles are usually civilian weapons. Submachine-guns, machine-guns, and automatic rifles are usually military weapons.

We also have to make a difference between owning a weapon and carrying a weapon.

 

I believe that in the USA owning and carrying (in some states) a weapon is usually allowed if you have the corresponding licence. In Europe civilians are usually not allowed to carry weapons, that privilege is only given to the police force, armed forces, etc. You can own it, transport it (in a case or suitable container,) use it in a firing range, but not in the street.

 

Though I've seen pictures of people with military weapons in the USA I'm not sure if civilians are really allowed to own working military weapons (maybe depending on state? our American friends may enlighten me here,) but in Europe owning working military weapons is strictly forbidden. Again, you are not allowed to own, even less carry, a working military weapon in Europe. There may be exceptions, but as a general rule, is forbidden.

 

But in Europe you are allowed to own militar replicas or deactivated militar weapons as long as you are a collector and have the appropiate deactivation certificate (in the case of deacs.) But you are not allowed to carry replicas. You can have it in your house, but not to carry it with you.

 

In the USA you are allowed to carry replicas as long as: it has a clear "toy" color scheme (blue, white, red, orange plastic replicas for example) and/or has a fixed (non-removable) bright orange tip with a minimum size. This is only a USA directive. The bright orange tip is not a European directive and (while reasonable) authorities are not obliged to comply with it.

 

Now, anything that does clearly not look like a gun and is in fact a toy may be classified as a toy in Europe and not a replica (like a white Kenner blaster, for example.) It's impossible (or at least very difficult) to confuse what is clearly a toy with a real gun, so there's no problem there. (I wonder why criminals don't spray paint their guns white, bright blue or orange, for example...)

 

Now, the problem here is that we are calling the E-11 blaster a "replica" while it should be better called a "prop".

I mean, it's not a replica of a Sterling Mk-4, it's a movie prop. While it's similar to a sub-machine gun in a way, its greeblies indicate clearly that it's not a firing gun, in the same way an orange tip or and odd color scheme indicates that a replica is not a firing gun.

 

The question here is that authorities want to avoid possible accidents. They want police to clearly know if you're a threat or not. If your prop or replica looks like a real gun how do they know if you're a criminal or not? It's not so uncommon for these kinds of accidents to happen. That's why replicas are usually not allowed.

 

But as a legion member, most of your missions will be planned and not improvised. So maybe when you have to, let's say, parade with your props you can talk to the police and warn them of the garrison's activities. Maybe even you can ask them to check the props beforehand so they can be sure that those are props and not real weapons (or deacs, that would requiere a certificate.) I think it's clear that a guy in a white armor with a weird looking gun is not a criminal

 

But talking to the police beforehand is not a bad practice.

 

So, make them clear that this is a movie prop and not a replica. A replica is an object that looks exactly like a real weapon. The blaster is an object that looks exactly like a movie prop. So I think it not quite the same thing.

 

But again, safety first. And talking to the local police might solve things... sometimes.

Cheers.

[Plastic Fury[TK]]

Now, the problem here is that we are calling the E-11 blaster a "replica" while it should be better called a "prop".

I mean, it's not a replica of a Sterling Mk-4, it's a movie prop. While it's similar to a sub-machine gun in a way, its greeblies indicate clearly that it's not a firing gun, in the same way an orange tip or and odd color scheme indicates that a replica is not a firing gun.

 

I would agree with that. It is true that in the movie they used Sterlings but you will be using (most likely) resin, wood or plastic to make your E-11 prop. If you tell them that this will be a non (NEVER) functioning prop used for your costume, that will hopefully make a difference. The problem will still be that it is going to look like a weapon, especially to those not familiar with guns. As was mentioned I would go talk to your local law enforcement body and see what they have to say about the matter.

 

 

 

I had the same thought Smitty did when reading this, as I sit in a room with four Star Wars replica weapon props and a house that holds over 25 real firearms, thank god I don't have this headache lol.

 

 

I believe that in the USA owning and carrying (in some states) a weapon is usually allowed if you have the corresponding licence.

Actually you would be surprised. In some states this is common practice but not in others. In the state of Florida, where I live, you are not required to have any type of license to own a fire arm (pistol or rifle, non-military) as long as you pass the background check and don't have a felony. In this state if you wish to carry a concealed weapon with you (legally), then you must take a course on safety and use and file for a permit. This is not hard to obtain as long as you have a clean background.

 

Though I've seen pictures of people with military weapons in the USA I'm not sure if civilians are really allowed to own working military weapons (maybe depending on state? our American friends may enlighten me here,) but in Europe owning working military weapons is strictly forbidden. Again, you are not allowed to own, even less carry, a working military weapon in Europe. There may be exceptions, but as a general rule, is forbidden.

I don't know all states but in my state (Florida again) you can own a military weapon but you must have the proper permit. This permit is VERY expensive and you basically give up some rights as far as the government is concerned but again, if you have a clean background and the money, you can purchase the permit.

 

 

In the USA you are allowed to carry replicas as long as: it has a clear "toy" color scheme (blue, white, red, orange plastic replicas for example) and/or has a fixed (non-removable) bright orange tip with a minimum size. This is only a USA directive. The bright orange tip is not a European directive and (while reasonable) authorities are not obliged to comply with it.

This is true, in the toy stores the guns have the orange tips and are often painted other crazy colors like blue or white. As far as replicas though, they can look exactly like the real thing. We have trooped on the streets and in front of the police with our replicas with no trouble at all. I was at a troop on Tuesday night where the fire department had to arrive (the comic store we trooped had a fire and blew out the fuse panel lol) along with the police. I had an officer come up to me jokingly, asking if I had a permit for my E-11 but we just laughed and he walked off. We just try to use common sense when it comes to being out in public but with the armor, nobody ever takes the weapon seriously. Common sense is the key, whenever I take a BFG to anything, I have it wrapped up in a towel or covered when in the parking lot or entering buildings, since the two I have look very real. Once inside and dressed, then I will carry it.

[Merugear]

Well, I got a reaction:

 

Quote

Dear Sir,

 

Based on article 2 etc. etc. of the Weapons and Ammunitions Law (WAL), other by the Minister of Justice appointed objects that can cause a serious threat to persons, or that resemble a weapon in such a way that they could be used for threatening or scaring off people, are weapons under the Category I in the case of the Law.

 

In article 13 WAL is decided that it is illegal to create, transform, recover for a third party, to carry over, to have at hand, to transport, to wear or to import or export, a weapon indicated to fall under Category I.

 

Weapons categorised under Category I are subject to very strict rules and by principle, particulars/civilians cannot own these legally. The posession of this kind of weapons by particulars/civilians is considered highly unwanted by the government, since these weapons are mainly only to be used for purposes that normally do not serve any societal cause.

 

So I sent another mail! (Cantbeatpie, I used your blaster before and after pics as a reference, if you don't mind)

 

Quote

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

thank you very much for you thorough and quick reaction to my mail. The question for me has become very clear thanks to your explanations! I truly understand that such a prop can be seen as a potential means to threaten people of the society, and judging from the past few news bulletins that came to my attention it is certain this is not a subject to think about lightly. Hence the reason for my correspondence.

 

I am already very grateful for the time and effort you and your colleages have spent on this question, but I want to make sure I have everything straight if you don't mind.

Again, thanks for the fast service, I really appreciate it.

 

Imagine... Someone buys this toy gun in a shop in the Netherlands:

 

With the resin parts he or she buys from eBay, he or she knows how to modify the toy gun in such a way that it looks like a prop from the movie Star Wars.

 

Now I can very well imagine that the toy gun in this picture can be seen and used as a way for threatening or scaring people. So in principle, the toy gun has now become a Category I weapon.

 

 

Now this same prop is being used by a costuming group on a promotional event in the Netherlands, with permission of the eventkeeper, fitting with the theme of the event (space) and it has been determined (possibly by local police) that these props are plastic toy guns combined with a costume that is known to be available at the event by the eventkeeper as well as the event's attendees. The carrying of these props is limited by wearing them in the borders of the event-terrain and will not be held in public sight after the events. All costumeholders are allied with the costuming group The Fighting 501st, who is widely known to be a collector for charities worldwide.

 

Additionally, as these costumes are used with the permission of Lucasarts/Lucasfilm (well Uncie George -Vincent), the wearers of these costumes are bound to a Code of Conduct, which allows them to use the intellectual property of Lucasarts/Lucasfilm for these events. They will have to act like this code as such.

 

For more information:

 

------------

 

501st Code of Conduct:

The 501st Legion recognizes that its costumes represent characters from the Star Wars films and as such, costume-wearers carry the responsibility of portraying these characters professionally and tastefully while in public. For these reasons, all members are prohibited from acting in a manner disrespectful towards the image they are portraying, towards fellow club members, or towards the public at large while in costume at an event expressly organized as a 501st event.

Foul language, obscene gestures, and use of alcohol or tobacco are prohibited while in costume in view of the public (children especially) as they jeopardize the club's image. Any convention or gathering where adult content is prevalent can be considered a private venue and a non-501st event and behavioral standards may be relaxed.

Acting in a threatening or violent manner, sexual harassment or misconduct, theft, and illegal substance abuse are all prohibited as they are unacceptable behavior. This applies to members in or out of costume at 501st events or otherwise.

In short, crude behavior is discouraged; threatening behavior is prohibited completely. Members who engage in such conduct may be subject to disciplinary action, including expulsion from the 501st Legion.

This code is not meant to restrict freedom, but to give fair warning what behaviors may require action to correct. When out of costume, members are still required to observe reasonable behavioral standards towards fellow club members, as these actions affect one another. Your private life is your own.

 

-Dutch translation-

 

Now my final questions are still:

 

does a modified toy gun, used during a pre-determined and estimated event, with props checked by the local police authority etc. etc. still fall under a weapon of Category I, and is it illegal in the Netherlands to carry such a prop at an event, even though this prop is used solely in combination with the accompanying costume, and not to be used in public if one is not in posession of such a costume or is not wearing such a costume at that moment in time?

 

Does the toy gun that is seen in the first image of this e-mail also fall under Category I, and, should this same gun be painted black, would it fall under Category I?

 

Is it possible to ask a waiver for such a toy gun, be it in form or by the local police department that supervise an event?

 

Thanks in advance and with best regards,

 

Vincent

 

Will keep you people updated! There's got to be a way for us Dutchmen to be able to troop properly!

Edited July 29, 2022 by gmrhodes13
link removed no longer working

[Merugear]

Got a reply:

 

does a modified toy gun, used during a pre-determined and estimated event, with props checked by the local police authority etc. etc. still fall under a weapon of Category I, and is it illegal in the Netherlands to carry such a prop at an event, even though this prop is used solely in combination with the accompanying costume, and not to be used in public if one is not in posession of such a costume or is not wearing such a costume at that moment in time? Yes

 

Does the toy gun that is seen in the first image of this e-mail also fall under Category I, and, should this same gun be painted black, would it fall under Category I? Yes

 

Is it possible to ask a waiver for such a toy gun, be it in form or by the local police department that supervise an event?

No

So that's that...

 

I sure hope the other 501st members in the Netherlands won't get in trouble cos of this, since I used a pic from the site (but basically the pic is readily available on-site so linking to it would basically do the same thing). But still, hope it doesn't cause any trouble.

 

Merugear off.

[Dmian]

OK, replicas are a no-no in the Netherlands...

But, what about deacs with a licence?

What about working guns with blanks and a licence?

Say for example that you want to shoot an action movie. How do they solve the problem?

Sometimes, for ridiculous it sounds, its easier to have real guns than replicas.

[Merugear]

Don't think the sterling would be allowed... Though the lewis gun is an antiquity... But costs 19 frikkin thousand dollars to get an original, then you need to de-ac it as well... And THEN you need to buy a weapons vault too, then a permit aaaand well my wallet doesn't allow for that.

 

Still mailing back and forth... I'll make it my duty to have our troops to wear their guns legally!

[Dargas[501st]]

damn... I wish I had something to say. they are pretty stubborn about something that could be talked about.

 

good luck with your crusade man!

[Merugear]

And another reply...

 

Dear Sir,

 

in Part B/4.1 of the Circulaire Weapons and Munitions, it is explained in which cases there can be a decent benefit to lending a waiver in order to carry a fire-arm in the 2nd Category belonging to the equipment of re-enactment.

 

This part decides amongst others that re-enactment is when, at acceptable ways, battles and events from the military history will be re-enacted by groups of historical interested, dressed in original, albeit replicated costumes and equipped with several, within the timespan fitting, with unit, battle or event related equipment pieces.

 

Your Star Wars club does not comply to these terms according to the Circulaire Weapons and Munitions. Also, there is no way to get a permit for a de-activated Lewis M.20.

 

I hope to have informed you completely now.

 

I guess it's going to be cardboard with a high density print on it for photoshoots from now on .

 

Any tips on other (albeit EU) accessories to be holding on during troops? I don't wanna hop skip jump around 'naked'.

 

Vincent

[Dmian]

Well... see it this way: why do you want a blaster for? Stormtroopers can only kill Jawas. A weapon in your hand can only mean you're going to be killed anyway...

Or you can grab a club and be the first CavernTrooper.

[TK8114[TK]]

Dear Sir,

 

in Part B/4.1 of the Circulaire Weapons and Munitions, it is explained in which cases there can be a decent benefit to lending a waiver in order to carry a fire-arm in the 2nd Category belonging to the equipment of re-enactment.

This part decides amongst others that re-enactment is when, at acceptable ways, battles and events from the military history will be re-enacted by groups of historical interested, dressed in original, albeit replicated costumes and equipped with several, within the timespan fitting, with unit, battle or event related equipment pieces.

 

Your Star Wars club does not comply to these terms according to the Circulaire Weapons and Munitions. Also, there is no way to get a permit for a de-activated Lewis M.20.

 

I hope to have informed you completely now.

 

I really don't see much of a difference between what we do and historical reenactment OTHER than the fact that one is based on real life. TBH I would think someone dressed as a fantasy character would be less threatening than someone dressed up as a real life Nazi or equivalent waving a gun around.

[Merugear]

I agree... Though the thing is, those organisations, just for the sake of people acting out Nazi's have been under close watch by the government and such must follow strict rules etc. etc. and face it WWII's been around longer than Star Wars. The difference with the Star Wars stuffs is that when you re-enact WWII, you have to use proper WWII weapons, registered and accounted for at a weaponsmith and with a waiver of owning it. You also have to be a member of that organisation for over a year before you can get a weapon like that.

 

Two things play a role in here. Firstly: If you add greeblies to a de-activated weapon, by law you are altering a weapon to appear as a toy gun (just to be a nitpick) which by common sense isn't quite acceptable to do. Second, the Dutch Garisson exists only of 20-odd members so there isn't really a community that can be used as a leverage, just 20-odd people wearing plastic.

 

I might just go Heavy Weapon Trooper, scratch build a PVC-pipe bazooka or such, and get myself a Mouse Droid instead.

[tie-pilot]

Any tips on other (albeit EU) accessories to be holding on during troops? I don't wanna hop skip jump around 'naked'.

 

Vincent

 

MOVE!

 

Dont get me wrong, I truley cant wait to visit the Netherlands but man cant even show off a replica ...you literally cant be seen with a fake star wars toy on the street? Or its breaking the law. But you can always troope in other EU countries (given you abide the fake weapons laws)

 

I would think that the Nazi re-enacting is a little less public friendly then Star Wars.

 

This calls for the old Jedi Mind trick.

[Blaze]

Interesting. I would like to know what the laws are in California and how they are interpreted in different cities, if anyone can find that out.

 

I'm a little afraid of realistic toy guns, personally, for a lot of reasons, but I'd still like a blaster that goes "pew pew" and lights up.

[Dmian]

Interesting. I would like to know what the laws are in California and how they are interpreted in different cities, if anyone can find that out.

 

I'm a little afraid of realistic toy guns, personally, for a lot of reasons, but I'd still like a blaster that goes "pew pew" and lights up.

Federal laws mandate for a 6mm -minimum- orange tip on the barrel of any imitation or toy gun. This part must be fixed to the barrel. Replicas or toy guns can't be imported, selled or traded without this orange tip.

In California it's a crime to remove such device.

Conventions won't let you get in with a prop gun without this orange tip.

Now, I've heard of people using removable tips. I don't know what could happen if you, for example, display publicly a blaster without the orange tip. And of course, it's not the same waving a blaster without the armor in a store than parading in full armor on an organized event.

In any case you'll have to check with your local authority.

[Òrlendr]

Seriously, why did you contact the authorities in the first place? You should have just hoped they would look the other way - by contacting them and making them aware of it you may force them to act on something they wouldn't bother with otherwise.

 

Why try to over-complicate things?

[Merugear]

Well, to try to find a way to legally do it of course. Also, several people re-enacting the A team complete and all with van and soundsystem playing the tune were arrested by force at an american parade here not so long ago, just carrying toy guns straight out of the shops here. I just wanna know my rights when some git calls the police cos they see phantom terrorists.

 

 

Also, how would:

 

"Dutch 501st Stormtrooper arrested for illegal weapon use" sound to good ole Uncie George as far as good PR is concerned .

 

Though from fellow troopers I heard they look the other way when at events and all. And just make sure you're in a group and not alone.

[Òrlendr]

Also, several people re-enacting the A team complete and all with van and soundsystem playing the tune were arrested by force at an american parade here not so long ago, just carrying toy guns straight out of the shops here.

Then I understand your worries... yikes! It ain't exactly Arizona!