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HWT CRL Changes - Your input is requested


Daetrin

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I feel your pain, Pedro.  Even though I am "grandfathered in" with the canvas ones, I am upgrading to the leather ones.

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there is talk about the change to a 'clean' TK. I don't find this a valid argument. We have a CRL for sevral diffrent builds of the same thing. such as a ANH TK or even a ROFJ TK. Each costume is it's own CRL.  If you can manage to figure out a way to swap details for builds then great! but the ability to swap details should never be considered for a CRL. The CRL is about costume standards and levels of details..  Also the refrance states Battlefront.  I think it needs to be changed to "Battlefront 2' as that is what it is most commonly pulled from. yes there are comics with them but the BF2 game is were most if not 99% of our refrance pics comes from and that the titel "battlefront' is now the 3rd titel of the game series.

 

Also. if a detail is in the refrance material then it sould be considered in the CRL.  Such as the

TD under the pack. (Make it for a higher level of detail if need be but it IS accurate and should NOT be disculded because it wasn't made to fit under your pack during your build. I was able to make it fit in my own build.  

The extra buttons on the armor 

Black tube striping on the helmet.

No anntena on pack

Black eyes lenses

3 ammo pouches. (Material can not be determaned when looking as long as they seam stright. so leather vs canvans I find is an iffy argument.  now the pack.. as long as it looks approxamit shgould be good! but I have suggestions for bettering that as well but not to worried about that here.

 

Here is my brake down of high res pics.  

2146626286_ArmorDetails_1.thumb.jpg.7e8384fe03a731cecb5a7c352fdbfada.jpg

 

also, my screen acurate build picture gallery to show that these levels of details can be done!  can't have change without sombody willing to take that first step!

 

 

 

17309423_1564091523631729_4672155951372747604_n.thumb.jpg.59a464a18398be123aad89b2e702a35f.jpg

 

 

May the CRL move onward to Costumed excelance!

Edited by gmrhodes13
photo updated
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My propsed changes to the CRL with pics. both digital screen-grabs and real-life takes

 

 

Helmet
For 501st approval:
Traps (trapezoids on dome of helmet) and tears (area beneath the corners of eye lenses) are gray.
Rear traps and tears have vertical black lines.
Lenses are flat material, BLACK in color, sufficiently dark enough to obscure the costumer's eyes.
The "ear" bars have three or four bumps and are gray or painted gray, with a black outline. 

Painting the bumps with rank stripes (highlighted) in black is optional.
Frown is painted gray and does not leave the teeth area. Eight total teeth on the frown are cut out.
Tube stripes are *BLACK* numbering between 9 and 16 per side with the curve bends extending backwards.
Vocoder (vertically ribbed chin detail) is painted black.
Aerators/Hovi mix tips (cylinders on either side of the vocoder) are black or painted black.
Tears, traps, and tube stripes may be hand painted, decals, or decals that replicate hand painted.
Mesh may be used behind the frown to obscure the face of the wearer.
Note: The helmet is accurate in detail and proportion to official references.
Many commercially available helmets or those considered disproportionate in size or shape are ineligible.

760179928_HelmetCRL.thumb.jpg.8f86233ca440c02d1d5fde96aea1a77e.jpg

 

Ammo Pouches
For 501st approval:
German MP-40 style ammo pouches.
Pouches are black in color and made of canvas, leather or leather-like material.
There are THEE pouches:
One pouch on the left shoulder and 
One on the right hip.
A third pouch worn on the opposite hip.

---------------

 

Abdomen Armor
For 501st approval:
The abdomen armor has a button area that matches the color pattern shown *(7 BLACK); buttons are approximately 7/16" (11mm) in diameter. 5 vertical with 2 more horisontal at the top*

For level two certification (if applicable):
Any gap between the abdomen and kidney armor is no more than 1/2" (12.5mm) wide.
Any shims used to achieve this effect are of a similar material and color as the abdomen and kidney armor. Shims fit flush and seams are allowed.
For level three certification (if applicable):
Ideally there no gap between the abdomen and kidney armor.
A single visible seam line is present.
Three rivets, approximately 5/16"(8mm) diameter, are present on the left side of the abdomen armor.
Note: The original rivets used for the TK armor were bifurcated rivets or split rivets.
Rivets are equally spaced along the depth of the armor and about 10mm from the edge.
The heads are rounded or domed.
Note: Paperclip brads are not considered to have a domed head.
Rivets are painted white.
A single male snap on the top right corner of the ab plate is present.
A single split rivet or brad is present on the lower tab of the abdomen armor.
Rivet does not need to be functional.
Abdomen armor buttons are integrated and painted directly on the armor.
No separate buttons are allowed.

----------------

 

*Thermal Detonator

For 501st approval:
(A.K.A. O2 canister) attaches to the center back of the belt.
Detonator consists of an all grey cylinder, without silver stickers or silver paint.
The cylinder is between 2” (50mm) and 2.68"(68mm) in diameter with white end caps on each end.
The white control panel pad faces upwards, with the controls/round washer style detail closest to the right end cap.
The total length is approximately 7.50" (190.5mm).
The thermal detonator is attached via metal or metallic-appearing clips, approximately 1" (25mm) wide.*

----------

 

 

 

Backpack
For 501st approval:
Backpack is styled after and closely matches the backpack seen in Star Wars Battlefront 1 and 2.

For level two certification (if applicable):
Backpack is lightly scuffed and battle worn, but not heavily weathered or dirty.

*For Level three certification (if applicable):
Motor tube has 2 sets of ribs. one front and one back. Each set of ribs numbers 5 ridges only.

The 'handle' of the pack is squared with the grip filled in.
There is trim on the left and right side of the pack

(there is NO antenna)*

 

------------

Edited by gmrhodes13
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More of my thoughts on HWT>.

The onlt weapons you see a HWT with in the stated context of Battlefron is the PTL minimag launcher and the SR-14 blaster pistol as well as a land mine.

also, the pauldrons in battlefront 1 and 2 were orange and only orange. no black or red or even white.

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The CRLs have recently been changed to reflect a number of things, and to set some standards.  Are they 100% accurate?  In a word, no. I understand your concerns about accuracy, believe me, and I have stated many times before that the pack (as seen in the game) would be extremely difficult for the average Trooper to build if constructed to match the screen caps exactly.  If that were the case, none of the packs currently being used by any HWT would be permitted.

We work with what we have available, which includes oil pans, cardboard, plastic containers and PVC.  We have to allow for the fact that not everyone has access to the same materials, and therefore some minor variations are permitted.  

There are also other impracticalities to going 100% accurate at this time:

 

Many HWTs use their current armor for "double duty", which gives them the ability (and luxury) to use it as both as that and as a regular TK when the need arises.  If the tube stripes and lenses were black, this would be impossible without purchasing another helmet.   Besides, no one currently makes black lenses.  The same thinking is considered for the black buttons on the ab.

 

If we wanted to get really precise, the following would be mandatory:

 

1.  TDs are not round, but octagons.

2.  The thigh ammo pack is not rounded at the bottom of the rear bottom corner,

3.  There are no buttons on the ABS belt.

4.  The top of the lower cannister has horizontal ribs.  The bottom is is smooth and conical.

5.  The only 2 colors allowed on the pack are black and bluish gray.  The bluish gray is only located on the bottom of the lower cannister, the top cannister, the vents and 4 buttons.

6.  The pack frame would need to be at least 7 to 8 inches thick, as shown in the game.

7.  The pack would have to have squared corners, not rounded.

 

Canvas MP40 pouches were allowed at first, probably because of the cost factor.  In the screen caps, there is a distinct "shine" on the tops.  Leather can be shiny and reflect light... canvas can not.

 

The vast majority of packs currently built do not have room for a TD, which is why this is an option.

 

The present CRL states that all pauldrons must be orange for all new approvals.  Those with other colors have been "grandfathered" in, the same for those who currently use canvas MP40 pouches.

 

I completely understand everyone's concern regarding accuracy, but again, we have to be practical.  Our main goal as HWTs is continuity, and perhaps one day many years from now things will change but for now we have to set some standards while still allowing for a few variations.  We are such a small number of characters that I highly doubt that the general public (or even the majority of Troopers) will notice the small inconsistencies.  At the end of the day, It's all about getting out there and having fun trooping.

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The CRLs have recently been changed to reflect a number of things, and to set some standards. Are they 100% accurate? In a word, no. I understand your concerns about accuracy, believe me, and I have stated many times before that the pack (as seen in the game) would be extremely difficult for the average Trooper to build if constructed to match the screen caps exactly. If that were the case, none of the packs currently being used by any HWT would be permitted.

We work with what we have available, which includes oil pans, cardboard, plastic containers and PVC. We have to allow for the fact that not everyone has access to the same materials, and therefore some minor variations are permitted.

There are also other impracticalities to going 100% accurate at this time:

 

Many HWTs use their current armor for "double duty", which gives them the ability (and luxury) to use it as both as that and as a regular TK when the need arises. If the tube stripes and lenses were black, this would be impossible without purchasing another helmet. Besides, no one currently makes black lenses. The same thinking is considered for the black buttons on the ab.

 

If we wanted to get really precise, the following would be mandatory:

 

1. TDs are not round, but octagons.

2. The thigh ammo pack is not rounded at the bottom of the rear bottom corner,

3. There are no buttons on the ABS belt.

4. The top of the lower cannister has horizontal ribs. The bottom is is smooth and conical.

5. The only 2 colors allowed on the pack are black and bluish gray. The bluish gray is only located on the bottom of the lower cannister, the top cannister, the vents and 4 buttons.

6. The pack frame would need to be at least 7 to 8 inches thick, as shown in the game.

7. The pack would have to have squared corners, not rounded.

 

Canvas MP40 pouches were allowed at first, probably because of the cost factor. In the screen caps, there is a distinct "shine" on the tops. Leather can be shiny and reflect light... canvas can not.

 

The vast majority of packs currently built do not have room for a TD, which is why this is an option.

 

The present CRL states that all pauldrons must be orange for all new approvals. Those with other colors have been "grandfathered" in, the same for those who currently use canvas MP40 pouches.

 

I completely understand everyone's concern regarding accuracy, but again, we have to be practical. Our main goal as HWTs is continuity, and perhaps one day many years from now things will change but for now we have to set some standards while still allowing for a few variations. We are such a small number of characters that I highly doubt that the general public (or even the majority of Troopers) will notice the small inconsistencies. At the end of the day, It's all about getting out there and having fun trooping.

Very nicely stated. I agree.

 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

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Also.. the refrance for the extra ab buttons is RIGHT THERE but plainly being ignored so that people can switch between a 'standard' TK and a HWT.  Is the standard of Cstumed exalence this is wrong! Also, none of the circles on battlefront 2 are real cylenders. its poor 3d modleing as I have pointed out in my build thread with the center round tube on the pack.

Edited by Quadan
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Well said, Joseph!

Though I've had similar thoughts about making a more dimensionally accurate pack I think it's important to keep in mind that 3D models (especially old ones like these) and their associated texture maps are intended to represent an object within the constrains of the game engine at the lowest level you can get away with for performance reasons.  That's why the thermal detonators are octagons instead of cylinders...lower polygon count = better performance.  What I mean is I think we should focus on the intent of the game pack/character more than the actual 3D models alone, i.e. the radio box is totally flat, but the texture map gives the illusion that there are knobs, recessed areas, etc., and that's what we've all been doing so far.

I feel like the CRL is in a good place now with the newly added updates and I'm sure over time there will be some more too.

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Also.. the refrance for the extra ab buttons is RIGHT THERE but plainly being ignored so that people can switch between a 'standard' TK and a HWT.  Is the standard of Cstumed exalence this is wrong! Also, none of the circles on battlefront 2 are real cylenders. its poor 3d modleing as I have pointed out in my build thread with the center round tube on the pack.

Dude,

 

You need to take it down a notch.  A lot of thought and time has gone into the CRL by many people, most of which are Centurion Level HWTs.  We all do this for fun, our love of Star Wars, for the kids, the ability to give back, etc....

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Forgive me. I am a rather invested in these changes as my own approvel depends on them. I am not so worried about the pack as much the armor details. I followed the refrance pictures rather then the CRL with the coloring of tube stripes and and ab button details as side by side comparasion of the CRL with the Refrance pictures does show many incosistencys that were actualy rather easy to achive.

Edited by Quadan
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  • 4 weeks later...

Ok, so today my GM just told me that the canvas pouches I bought are no longer allowed, and that my build was done using the old CRL. I have been waiting since Christmas to wear my HWT to an event and to get photos taken to submit them for validation. What can I do? 

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Ok, so today my GM just told me that the canvas pouches I bought are no longer allowed, and that my build was done using the old CRL. I have been waiting since Christmas to wear my HWT to an event and to get photos taken to submit them for validation. What can I do? 

 

Hey Bruno, I'd say if you have a build thread you can refer him to than you might have a case for the grandfather clause. If not unfortunately they'll have to be replaced. Sorry brother

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I agree with Tony - usually if someone is WIP we let it go. It's not a huge issue, and we would understand someone would upgrade later. It's what I would do as a GML (and I'm a GML :) ). You could have him talk to us ;-)

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FWIW, in the end it's your GML's call, we can advise but this is our opinion. We don't have authority to override your GML. That said, most are pretty reasonable.

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Interesting and fun thread but I'm uncertain as to whether the CRL has been updated based on this discussion. Is the CRL for HWT updated as of today (April 20, 2017)? <br><br>

There are also a few items on which I'd like a definitive answer:<br><br>

- On the TD, I note that TD's are NOT to be put on when using a pack but are listed in the "optional" section. If it's an option when the pack is off, then without the pack, you are also not fulfilling the requirements for HWT. So why is it an option at all under the HWT CRL? So if it's truly an option, shouldn't the following sentence be omitted: "Note: The Thermal Detonator is omitted from this costume when a pack is worn". Or more simply put, it should indicate that a TD can be worn as an option when the pack is on. <br><br>

- Antenna's for the pack: no mention in the CRL. Is this still optional? <br><br>

- Leather v. Canvas - there was discussion above regarding requiring leather for L2/L3. I just bought the canvas version but would ultimately like to apply for L2 or L3. So do we need leather?<br><br>

Sorry to nit pick but need the 411 as I'm in the midst of pulling this all together.<br><br>

Thanks to all you guys! Can't wait to start troopin'

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Interesting and fun thread but I'm uncertain as to whether the CRL has been updated based on this discussion. Is the CRL for HWT updated as of today (April 20, 2017)? <br><br>

There are also a few items on which I'd like a definitive answer:<br><br>

- On the TD, I note that TD's are NOT to be put on when using a pack but are listed in the "optional" section. If it's an option when the pack is off, then without the pack, you are also not fulfilling the requirements for HWT. So why is it an option at all under the HWT CRL? So if it's truly an option, shouldn't the following sentence be omitted: "Note: The Thermal Detonator is omitted from this costume when a pack is worn". Or more simply put, it should indicate that a TD can be worn as an option when the pack is on. <br><br>

- Antenna's for the pack: no mention in the CRL. Is this still optional? <br><br>

- Leather v. Canvas - there was discussion above regarding requiring leather for L2/L3. I just bought the canvas version but would ultimately like to apply for L2 or L3. So do we need leather?<br><br>

Sorry to nit pick but need the 411 as I'm in the midst of pulling this all together.<br><br>

Thanks to all you guys! Can't wait to start troopin'

 

The TD wordage is such because in the game screen shots there are troopers with TDs and backpacks, both being worn at the same time however, not everyone can wear them both so it's optional. Pack is required regardless. 

 

Antenna is optional IF you have a current build thread showing it installed prior to the CRL being updated. That said, if you have a build thread that shows it installed during the CRL update your most likely to be grandfathered in however, this is ultimately up to your garrison's GML.  

 

It has been decided that canvas packs do not meet basic standards and leather or leather like is required. All the game screen shots show shiny packs. Mentioned before, if you have a build thread that shows you had canvas pouches during the CRL update your most likely to be grandfathered in however, this is ultimately up to your garrison's GML. L2 and L3 leather or leather like is manditory

 

Hope this helps

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OK - thanks<br><br>

So I'll drop the antenna from my pack (thankfully hadn't purchased it yet).<br><br>

On the mag pouches, I just realized that I misread the CRL requirements. I didn't notice that the BELT packs had to be leather or leather-like yet the SHOULDER pouch allows canvas. I bought 2 pairs of canvas pouches that I was planning to use. <br><br>

So can I still use the shoulder one in canvas and have the belt ones in leather and still qualify for L2/L3 or do all three have to be leather/like?<br><br>

I ask because there is no blue/red text underneath the mag pouch section on the HWT CRL.<br><br>

Thanks

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OK - thanks<br><br>

So I'll drop the antenna from my pack (thankfully hadn't purchased it yet).<br><br>

On the mag pouches, I just realized that I misread the CRL requirements. I didn't notice that the BELT packs had to be leather or leather-like yet the SHOULDER pouch allows canvas. I bought 2 pairs of canvas pouches that I was planning to use. <br><br>

So can I still use the shoulder one in canvas and have the belt ones in leather and still qualify for L2/L3 or do all three have to be leather/like?<br><br>

I ask because there is no blue/red text underneath the mag pouch section on the HWT CRL.<br><br>

Thanks

 

If there's no L2 or L3 requirements below basic than it's excepted at all levels with no additional changes  :duim:

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Tony

 

Thanks.  I went ahead and just pulled the trigger on two pairs of the leather ones so I don't have to worry about it in the future.  I just need to blacken the stitching.

 

Anyone need some canvas pouches! LOL!  B)

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  • 2 months later...

I agree the Thermal Detonator/O2 Canister should be an OPTIONAL Accessory. While some may not be able to fit it on their belt at all, other taller troopers can easily wear it under their packs as seen in the game.

658775283_HWT3(1).jpg.3e4e66b634b39af5becce5a4ea549d84.jpg

 

As far as the Ab Buttons, Tube Stripes, and Lens colors go; I would guess all these small detail inconsistencies were never really intended by Lucasfilm and probably largely due in part to the low quality 3D imaging and/or the graphics designers were just not utilizing their reference material accurately. Either way I think it's apparent that a HWT is basically just a standard stormtrooper assigned to a specific heavy weapon duty, issued a pack, and given a different "HWT" title. Otherwise it wouldn't even be part of FISD, it would be a whole other separate detachment like MEPD or SpecOps.

 

I also have to comment on the Antenna; It looks cool and all, and if that's what you want then rock on. Although technically it isn't in the game or any other references so it's not accurate to the source material at the end of the day.

 

 

With the latest Battlefront game and the new Battlefront II coming out soon I think it might be worth considering adding a whole new CRL for a 'Battlefront Stormtrooper' separate from the original Heavy Weapons Trooper. There are different types of troopers in the game and an endless configuration of weapons, pauldrons, and packs. It might be very well worth considering a new separate CRL for the Battlefront Stormtrooper to go alongside with ANH, ESB, ROTJ, ect. The new R1 Stromtrooper CRL will have it's own optional pack as well.

  I very much like this version of the HWT pack from the latest Battlefront game, I want to build a replica one day. There is also a Jetpack and a Magma Trooper pack in the game, although technically those are worn by Jump Troopers(Skytroopers) and Magma Troopers(Lavatroopers) not standard Stormtroopers.

It may be easier to just add these 3 packs to those existing CRLs; Heavy Weapons Trooper, Sky Trooper, & Magma Trooper. But a new Battlefront Stromtrooper CRL would go along nicely with the Shocktrooper CRL.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg542/William_Shawn_Cantey/Battlefront%20Shocktrooper%20Build/24823122054_5667818a6a_o_zpsf1e2hecu.jpg

 

 

Edited by gmrhodes13
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  • 4 weeks later...

Has the CRL been revised yet?  On the 501st page is still looks the same.  

 

I am asking since we have someone in the Carolina Garrison submitting with an antenna and from what I can tell, they are still allowed.

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On 8/5/2017 at 10:32 AM, CrookKnight said:

Has the CRL been revised yet?  On the 501st page is still looks the same.  

 

I am asking since we have someone in the Carolina Garrison submitting with an antenna and from what I can tell, they are still allowed.

 

It's still in progress. If the applicant was building their pack while the CRL was in transition then technically they could be grandfathered in. Ultimately we leave it up to the GMLs but without a solid CRL to refer to telling an applicant no antenna is a hard push.   

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It's still in progress. If the applicant was building their pack while the CRL was in transition then technically they could be grandfathered in. Ultimately we leave it up to the GMLs but without a solid CRL to refer to telling an applicant no antenna is a hard push.   
Thanks for the update.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

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