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New EIB requirement is no longer an EIB requirement.


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This is a minor change, but it doesn't jive with the spirit of EIB.  I agree about Eric's comment regarding prop replication.  This is not the RPF and we are not the Last Imperial Stormtrooper Detachment.  Let's remember that discussion is a positive thing.  It isn't fighting and it isn't non-productive.

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I think Germain has illustrated the point here.  Here are sets of armor that have been molded with the square notch in mind:

 

 

New NE:

 

CyyHwMV.jpg

 

 

 

RS Props:

 

12624918454_5591136d31_b.jpg

 

 

TM

 

IMG_0188_zps8945b8cf.jpg

 

 

Each of these kits has the top of the notch line up (mostly) with the bottom of the cod piece edge, then has the extra ABS around the kidney from that point down.

 

 

From what I've found so far, two other popular armor kits - ATA and AP, do not allow for this type of line-up if a notch is cut out.  On the AP kit, the bottom of the kidney lines up with the bottom of the cod.  On ATA, there is some additional ABS at the bottom of the kidney, but I don't believe the notch would be big enough if the top of the notch was cut to line up with the bottom edge of the cod on the ab piece.

 

If we want people with these armor types to have this notch and be screen-accurate, the kidney would have to be longer in order to accommodate it, which would necessitate a mold change for the armor makers.  Here are the examples I found:

 

AP:

 

SideLeftRivetDetail_zps43422e0e.jpg

 

 

ATA:

 

002284a4-4d31-4a11-b1d4-a6eec94ecb45.jpg

 

 

 

While it seems it is something as simple as "cutting out a square" in the kidney, I think this needs to be a more thought-out process, getting armor makers involved and asking their thoughts on changing how they make their kidney pieces in order to have this modification.  If we start requiring AP and ATA builders to cut this notch out for EIB, the alignment of the entire ab and kidney pieces will be off.  This can then in turn cause fit issues as people attempt to get the bottom of the cod to line up with the top line of the notch, throwing off the back-kidney alignment, and subsequently altering the distance between the chest and back plates at the shoulders.  We don't know if the design of the other pieces for ATA and AP will fit properly to accommodate this type of shift.  At the very least, before making the notch a requirement at any level, we should have a trooper alter an AP and ATA kit with the notch, then correct the alignments everywhere to see how it all looks. 

 

As for whether this should be at EIB or Centurion - Steve, the other items you listed that aren't seen are all at the Centurion level.  This notch feels more like a Centurion requirement than an EIB requirement.

Edited by maxsteele
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That does seem like it would be bit of a hassle for some people to try and pull off. Why even bother if that area is covered up? I was never planning on going EIB anyway, but I can see this being a potential turn-off for those who otherwise would have EIB-ready armors. You guys wanted 700 (?) EIB troopers by the end of the year, right? I don't see that happening -- not with stuff like this popping up.

 

"Don't forget to remove your belt so we can check to see if you cut your notch out."

*facepalm* :glare:

There should be more support to our current goals before any changes are made. We want better looking troopers in our ranks right? Stay on target!

 

:

Edited by RampantLion
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Well I guess I won't be EIB. I don't have the skills to do that to my armor.

And I don't have the shape to fit in a TM or RS as much as I would love to. This will effect the road to 700 EIB, sadly.

I do think it's a big step for EIB. I just hope that we can continue discussing this as civilized people :)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

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Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts and viewpoints. Considering I have a set of MTK armor,cutting this notch out will only result in the sides of the butt plate to extend past the kidney notch in its current configuration. Will this misalignment require extensive trimming of the butt plate sides to match and adding back the return edge to be compliant?

 

My previous application for ESB EI in June was held back pending the horizontal shoulder to bicep straps that were not at that time part of the CRL but recommended since the change was coming shortly.

 

I have completed the straps but failed to resubmit new pics since I was waiting to schedule with my photographer. This however adds another item to complete. Perhaps EI is not in my cards. Missed it by that much :)

Edited by toybiz
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Is the goal of FISD to grow EIB so that more of our troopers LOOK fantastic, or is it for EIB to represent a difficult and possibly secret achievement?

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Is the goal of FISD to grow EIB so that more of our troopers LOOK fantastic, or is it for EIB to represent a difficult and possibly secret achievement?

The former. It's been that way since day one, and it is how the charter of the program is written. Centurion was created for those that wanted a higher standard.
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I was planing on building for EIB, but this new mod is a little off putting.

I have AP armour and only just started a build thread, this 10x15 notch just not going to happen. I guess I can kiss Centurion good bye too.

When looking at reference shots and images others have posted, these dimensions don't look right anyway, seems larger then 10mm .

I honestly can't see how this mod can make me look any better considering it can't be seen, it's time to listen to the people here on the blog.

Forget your notch, stop frustrating people, we are here to raise funds and awareness for charities, make people smile and have a little fun in the process.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Nice work Mike. :duim:

But which measurements did you go by? Those currently in the CRL are not accurate, as mentioned in a post of mine earlier.

 

To those larger troopers of you with shims, you have the easiest of all, as you just use a slightly shorter shim than you normally would, thus creating the same effect.

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Also, to those that say it's a detail that doesn't show, there are several requirements in EIB and even in basic that are required but doesn't show. Consider that.

 

And lastly, it does show. On some troopers. It depends on your body and if you wear your belt at the proper height or not. Here are some examples of it showing. Of course there are other scenes were it doesn't show. These examples are just to show that it was visible.

gallery_12157_11_32427.jpg

gallery_12157_11_177272.jpg

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At this point....I just added the feature to the armor. The size will really be determined by the persons waist size in the end...My ab plate and back runs larger than others for people with more girth :) If someone is very small they will need to cut the ab plate as much as they can to retain the notch. In the end they may have to cut it out completely and make another without a return edge. What is the correct height and width then?? Assuming that the area would not change??

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post-20092-0-35870200-1408914204_thumb.jpg

 

Just another reference photo. But I agree with the majority, this shouldn't be in the EIB CRL. It should be for those aiming for centurion.

Edited by HawkFan24
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So will this change be voted on by the detachment as years of changes have been, or is it being implemented by fiat?

This was really my biggest question, right here.

 

As a new Legion member, I've been reading a lot of the posts in the Legion Access section of the forums to become more familiar with how the Legion, and specifically things like changes to the CRLs and elections, really work.

 

I don't really have a problem with the new standard, but I concur with what appears to be the majority that the timing, placement, and execution of it are a bit counter productive. In the midst of the drive to 700 EIBs, which really appeared to have gained a good head of steam as of late, this one change appears to have singularly crushed a lot of that momentum. Truthfully, for a short period of time I even considered abandoning both EIB and Centurion applications as a result because as others have stated, it seems like it is simply cutting a notch in the AB plate, but for kits that don't have it molded, and are already built, it creates a potential slew of other problems. To meet this requirement, I'll have to remove and rebuild my strapping system on the left side. That means buying new rivets, possibly re-sewing stuff, possibly filling a hole with ABS paste, and drilling a new one only millimeters from the old one... At any rate, it will be more for me than just cutting the notch, and figuring out what to do with the butt plate alignment.

 

EDIT: It will be four holes that I'd have to move, as the location of four of my rivets would be impacted.

 

Long story short, I'll submit my EIB before the new change takes effect in order to be able to pursue Centurion with my Hero TK and after I gather my necessary accessories to submit my Stunt TK, I'll make the necessary changes to submit it for EIB and Centurion.

 

As a new member who has not been a part of the election or CRL review processes yet, I'll say that it seems a bit odd that it simply appeared as a change mid-year with no apparent discussion or review. As an American, I've become used to that and I'm still kicking. As a Soldier, I remember one of my favorite "sayings" that we use in the face of unpopular regulatory changes: mine is not to question why, mine is just to do or die.

Edited by Dark CMF
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At this point....I just added the feature to the armor. The size will really be determined by the persons waist size in the end...My ab plate and back runs larger than others for people with more girth :) If someone is very small they will need to cut the ab plate as much as they can to retain the notch. In the end they may have to cut it out completely and make another without a return edge. What is the correct height and width then?? Assuming that the area would not change??

I have asked RS to measure it for me tomorrow. It's only one suit, but it's as good source as we can get at the moment.

 

So will this change be voted on by the detachment as years of changes have been, or is it being implemented by fiat?

No votes, it's already in the CRL. But I don't expect a stringent check on each application but rather something we ease into. In fact, the goal is to have it implemented at mould-level in as many kits as possible. I won't deny that, as it's obviously the best way to go about it. It' has worked in the past, as AM would not be in existence if not for evolving EIB requirments.

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The 700 EIB's is not on my personal goal list. It's on Daetrins, which somehow reflect on to me. I have always been a quality over quantity kind of guy.

 

Let me make it perfectly clear that I'm not trying to actively ruin the fun for anyone. But I had discussions with the LMO, who asked if there was anything I would like added to the EIB section oft the kidney (which was completely empty). I thought for a while, and replied that the mentioning of notched corners would be nice to add. The LMO agreed and added it. Then I stopped to worry about it, and then we are here.

 

I am however, trying to think big-picture. How can I improve not only FISD and the legion, but Stormtroopers in general through changes that over time seeps into the larger crowd? Without EIB there would be no AM-armour for example. It's a direct consequence of it. And not everyone that buys their, or anyone else's armour end up in the Legion. And maybe, over time, even the crappy recasts on ebay will have improved.

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This was really my biggest question, right here.

 

As a new Legion member, I've been reading a lot of the posts in the Legion Access section of the forums to become more familiar with how the Legion, and specifically things like changes to the CRLs and elections, really work.

 

I don't really have a problem with the new standard, but I concur with what appears to be the majority that the timing, placement, and execution of it are a bit counter productive. In the midst of the drive to 700 EIBs, which really appeared to have gained a good head of steam as of late, this one change appears to have singularly crushed a lot of that momentum. Truthfully, for a short period of time I even considered abandoning both EIB and Centurion applications as a result because as others have stated, it seems like it is simply cutting a notch in the AB plate, but for kits that don't have it molded, and are already built, it creates a potential slew of other problems. To meet this requirement, I'll have to remove and rebuild my strapping system on the left side. That means buying new rivets, possibly re-sewing stuff, possibly filling a hole with ABS paste, and drilling a new one only millimeters from the old one... At any rate, it will be more for me than just cutting the notch, and figuring out what to do with the butt plate alignment.

 

Long story short, I'll submit my EIB before the new change takes effect in order to be able to pursue Centurion with my Hero TK and after I gather my necessary accessories to submit my Stunt TK, I'll make the necessary changes to submit it for EIB and Centurion.

 

As a new member who has not been a part of the election or CRL review processes yet, I'll say that it seems a bit odd that it simply appeared as a change mid-year with no apparent discussion or review. As an American, I've become used to that and I'm still kicking. As a Soldier, I remember one of my favorite "sayings" that we use in the face of unpopular regulatory changes: mine is not to question why, mine is just to do or die.

It's unclear to me how you are building your suit. And I won't tell you you shouldn't do it any way you like, but it sounds like you're doing something wrong if this change is forcing you to make all those changes.
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It's unclear to me how you are building your suit. And I won't tell you you shouldn't do it any way you like, but it sounds like you're doing something wrong if this change is forcing you to make all those changes.

Nothing is done wrong. Since my kit didn't have the notch, I have a rivet in the approximate location where I will have to cut the notch. Once the notch is cut, simply raising the bottom rivet will throw off the equal spacing between the three, so I'll have to relocate the center one as well.

 

Guy, this should in no way deter you from pursuing EIB or Centurion. It is my opinion that this will be an easy modification if it is planned for from the start of the build. As you can see however, modifying completed armor to incorporate it will - in some cases - require a little more work than simply cutting the notch. You'll be just fine in your pursuit of EIB and Centurion. We won't let you fail, should you choose to achieve them! ;)

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Nothing is done wrong. Since my kit didn't have the notch, I have a rivet in the approximate location where I will have to cut the notch. Once the notch is cut, simply raising the bottom rivet will throw off the equal spacing between the three, so I'll have to relocate the center one as well.

Ah, I just read it wrong the first time around then.
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I'm fine with doing it, if it doesn't affect the overall flow of my armor, since joining the military I've become so anal about everything.

LoL... Now THAT, I can fully relate to.

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