hikeba[TK] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Howdy! This is the 4th set of armor I've built (TK "ready to wear" lol - TB - MAGMA and starting on NE) and the first time I've done butt join with cover strips. Man! You have to be more accurate as the adjusting of velcro won't help! So my question is this: When the pieces are joined - the "ridge" on each side should not be seen? In other words the only "ridge" that should be visible is the cover strip? Here is the front of one of my thighs Before the cover strip (which is 20-25 mm which is basically 1"?) there is 2" of space (1" on each side) I added the (star wars) ruler for reference but you can't see the numbers! I need to trim this so that the cover strip "hides" the ridges (or is the only ridge) correct? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hikeba[TK] Posted January 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Which also means that this shin has the same problem.... Shown without the cover strip and with a 1" cover strip for reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 each ridge should only extend 1/16" past the 1" strip. or less The Armor shown could be assembled with the ROTJ overlap method, which is why there is 1" on each side. but for the ANH style of butt join requires that the cover strip be that one inch. in the film some assemblies are different in size but you usually will want at least a little of the ridge showing on each side. I usually cut each side just a small amount beyond 1/2" and when the strip is added only a small amount is left shown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Uh? No, no part of the ridge should be seen under the cover strip. If you do see it, it is unintentional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) I have seen photos from troopermaster that show the ridges on each side of screen used armor. here you go Edited January 20, 2014 by TK Bondservnt 2392 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Post them up then. And do keep in mind I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm just saying it's not intended to be that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 posted above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 And here's a a shot of one of RS's forearms (left), and aside from the flare at the top, which cannot be covered, the ridge is well hidden. Same here with the thigh. It has some ridge poking out, but that's clearly unintentional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) the photo provided above is from paul, and the RS kit is not the "end of all" understanding on the assembly of all suits in the film that's only ONE suit out of at least 25 suits built. in fact the RS suit was built early on in production and was used as a sandtrooper suit as well as a tantive iv suit. not all suits have the same construction method. the cover strip and the trimmings all varied. in fact the RS suit cover strips are not even square.. in the thighs the cover strips are tapered. I.e. wider at one end than on the other. personally I would approve suits with ridges and without. it's not rocket science... it's wonky star wars assembly concepts~! I like a little ridge to show.. and it is screen accurate. I would say that we can accept variance if we really want to be screen accurate. Edited January 20, 2014 by TK Bondservnt 2392 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Only the torso is proven sandtrooper. And clearly parts from RS are mixed and used in several scenes, both in early and late recording, since tantive iv was one of the last. And you are right, it isn't the be all end all, but it's one of the best references we have since RS has put out so many photos of it. Yes, all the suits differ from each other, that's what hand made stuff does. But you can't claim that the visible ridges are intentional when they clearly aren't. And the picture you posted comes from the LFL archives. We have a lower resolution one in our gallery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 intentional? or not intentional... what is that? the fact is that the ridges exist and are seen in the film. we should not place our expectations upon a wonky assembly process. how can someone say "oh,,, that was not intentional" when in fact it's seen on more than one suit? sure. the RS suit can easy be a collection of parts from several suits. perhaps it's a collection of parts left over from the death star fall trooper... or the tuck and roll trooper. many of the suits were broken during stunts... so it stands to reason that the RS might well just be a collection of parts. interesting concepts here mathias... and I appreciate the polite and happy discussion here. my point is that we can't just have "one way" but many ways to screen accuracy. if foreamrs are constructed with no ridges then they won't fit people who have arms larger than 10" in forearm diameter so we have to accept differences in arm construction in the real world of 501st assembly concepts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 The visible ridges comes from sloppy trimming/assembly. And I'm not talking about personal tweaking to fit large limbs. Nor am I talking about replicating a specific suit or the general hasty and sloppy assembly of original suits. I'm saying that if you can fit, and want to do it "right", you shouldn't have visible ridges any more than that you should intentionally crack you armour or attach the cover strips with rivets, just because the RS thoughs had some of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 my point is that there is no one right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troopermaster Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Vern has not highlighted the ridge very well and has picked up on a flaw on the thigh, not the ridge. This is where the real ridge is on the thigh- Only the movie suits had 20-25mm joining strips. In the replica costuming world where we have every different body shape known to man, the rules change. The joining strips should cover the ridge - period! Now, if you have thighs (or whatever limb part for that matter) that calls for the parts to be wider than the suits intended size, then you have make changes in order for the parts to fit you. The OP is going to need a 50mm wide strip for the front and whatever size strip needed for the back. It's that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK5144[TK] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 If a person's legs are so wide as to need the front ridge to be 50mm across, should he have the cover strip be 50mm also, or keep it 20mm and allow ridge to show on both sides of the cover strip.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 If a person's legs are so wide as to need the front ridge to be 50mm across, should he have the cover strip be 50mm also, or keep it 20mm and allow ridge to show on both sides of the cover strip.? Only the movie suits had 20-25mm joining strips. In the replica costuming world where we have every different body shape known to man, the rules change. The joining strips should cover the ridge - period! Now, if you have thighs (or whatever limb part for that matter) that calls for the parts to be wider than the suits intended size, then you have make changes in order for the parts to fit you. The OP is going to need a 50mm wide strip for the front and whatever size strip needed for the back. It's that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hikeba[TK] Posted January 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Wow! I thought this was a simple question... didn't mean to start a war! I will be covering the ridge as completely as possible with the cover strips and will post pictures when I'm done. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) thanks paul.. the red line on the left is the left ridge and the red line on the right is the cover strip on the photo show the edges of the cover strip and you have correctly outlined the ridge with your yellow line. so with both colors we have the cover strip edge and the left yellow line is the cover strip and the right yellow line outlines the ridge paul has outlined if you look at my red lines and you interpret correctly- I should have done the outlines differently... one side is ridge LEFT and one red side is cover strip edge RIGHT I personally don't see how we prove your and mathias' point when the photographic proof shows the EXACT opposite. The Ridge on this particular set of HDPE painted armor clearly shows that the cover strip DOES not cover the ridges on each side. why do we take a photographic proof and still demand a cover strip that hides the ridge when this is clearly not the case? personally I don't make armor with this much ridge... but I don't think we have enough evidence to suggest that ALL the suits have cover strips wide enough to cover the ridge. The photo itself proves my point the ridges on screen used armor are all different widths. chris -this is a calm and quiet debate covering the aspects of this photo. my red line is intended to outline the cover strip as shown. and paul has done a fine job of helping me prove my point by adding the yellow line to show the ridge and cover strip edge. my little L shapes were intended to show the distance from strip to ridge. so how does this photo of screen used armor show hidden ridges? (personally I believe hidden ridges to be an "Idealized" element that we in the 501 have added to the lore, which I believe is not shown in the photo itself) an example would be the ear trimming on a helmet, or the eye trimming. we clean it up, and call it good, when we could accept wonky. thanks paul for adding the yellow lines, The red line shows the edge of the cover strip. and as for showing a "flaw" on the thigh... it's not really a flaw... it's how it was done in 1976. if paul would like to show how the thigh is flawed, I would love to learn how that fact can be established. have fun! Edited January 20, 2014 by TK Bondservnt 2392 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troopermaster Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 The lines I have added are where the ridges are for the joining strips. We know the originals were not assembled as cleanly as we all make them today and the joining strips do not always cover the joining ridge. We can go back and forth saying it should be this or that, so you can cover every millimetre of the ridge or leave a little bit showing. What I would not suggest is leaving 20-30mm showing just because you have big thighs and your armour is too small for you to use a 20-25mm strip. Back in the day the actors wore the armour if it fit them. We are doing it the opposite way around by choosing armour that does not always fit our body and making it fit any way we can. Going back to your lines, the flaw I see looks like it was made by the adhesive on the thigh strap. I cannot see it here on the original RS thigh but I do see it on the one in the archives. You can see where the ridge is and it's not where you put it. Argue the toss if you like but it's there for all to see and make your own minds up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) ah! I see it now! the glue from the inside has created a false ridge on the left hand side, where the inside elastic ABS glue has warped the form of the thigh, making it look like a ridge... heat transfer from the glue and elastic seems to have warped the entire upper thigh? while we have a ridge shown on the right hand side. is this correct observation paul? and it's not really easy to see from our previous photos, but your full size photo clearly shows only a ridge on the outboard edge! when I look at the photo below I see ridges visible on each side of the thigh construction? (sorry... had to point it out... LOL) ah the joy of photographic debates takes place on the RPF and on the FISD!!! Edited January 20, 2014 by TK Bondservnt 2392 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 And as usual you don't trust my word until TM says the same thing as me. Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 actually he makes points we can both discuss... he mentions allowing ridges on each side? so when you look at his responses closely he allows for both of our opinions as a judgement call. my point is that ridges are not always hidden on screen used armor... and that is the point he allows, at the same time he is accepting variance... he allows us to decide for ourselves. the goal is to understand the concept clearly,, not to make up absolutes where there are none. as usual debates have 2 sides... that's why I asked for his opinion. I have made armor with large ridge gaps, and made armor with no ridge gap. the variance being the only constant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolo[TK] Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Did most of the cover strips assembled with rivets on the movie armors? Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Did most of the cover strips assembled with rivets on the movie armors? Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billhag Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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