Lichtbringer Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Sounds to me as if the same could be done to a self made plastic tube as to the factory made plastic-tube? As both are plastic - after painting them black no officer would say "that one looks like a toy, but the other like a real gun". They don´t see any of the differencies we are arguing here about, and if, they don´t care. A officer having both in front of him, handling them, would then seize both or release both. As long as they have the same general appearance (black painted and orange tip). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK6466[TK] Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Sounds to me as if the same could be done to a self made plastic tube as to the factory made plastic-tube? As both are plastic - after painting them black no officer would say "that one looks like a toy, but the other like a real gun". They don´t see any of the differencies we are arguing here about, and if, they don´t care. A officer having both in front of him, handling them, would then seize both or release both. As long as they have the same general appearance (black painted and orange tip). Yes i think that works. But you will also have problems with hasbro blasters. The waponlaw here in switzerland is sooooo stupid!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichtbringer Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Funny you say that, a friend of mine moved to switzerland due to the country being much more lax on guns - he´s active competition shooter, reloading his special tournament amunition at home, now, there. I don´t think the swiss law is more rigid than our german. But at events it all comes down to the common sense of the officials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleOne Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) Well i think that Hasbro-Kenner is synonymous with the success of Star Wars on many different levels, all the toys they have made and sold helped Lucas do more movie and TV series and hopefully a full live TV show soon. So I feel that the Hasbro stuff should not discounted because it is part of Star Wars universe. Just for the Jive of it, it feels cool to have a Hasbro blaster, i am running around the house pressing that trigger like crazy, aiming at my dog and i am 40 years old now, plus the sound that it makes is fun too. Besides how would you feel if someone came to you and said to you that you have to ditch your helmet and armor because now there is the Si-Man suit which is 100% or so screen accurate and that is what you have now because someone seems to think you should have to have it to be more accurate...i dont think you would appreciate that at all... i ll work on my hasbro and mod it and later down the road i might buy another better kit...not because someone tells me so but because i would feel the need to reward myself in respect of the accuracy of the movie but that being said i would not do this for another or just because somes says so. I would do it for my own knowledge and learning benefit. my 2 republic credits... Edited May 16, 2011 by LittleOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john danter Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 So the Hasbro is responsible for Jar Jar Binks? Bin them lol No one is saying bin them mate. Some are saying just slowly encourage pipe builds as we move forward If you have a Kenner, keep it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) People has always been fighting change, like when the fork was introduced, when earth was no longer flat, or it was the center of the universe. Evolution is •still• fought by some people. Get over it, the hasbro is not the center of the TK universe. Edited May 17, 2011 by Locitus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) I'd really like to go centurion but it looks like I have to buy a hyperfirm or build one...In the meantime I'll remain a lowly trooper with my non realistic Hasbro bottom row of T track needs removed. add bayonet lug. add holes in barrel, add inner barrel. then I would like it better!! nice work! Edited May 17, 2011 by TK Bondservnt 2392 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichtbringer Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Get over it, the hasbro is not the center of the TK universe. That is valid for plastic drain pipe, too. Kids like stuff with light and sound, or something that makes them think is "Wow, that real blaster is heavy" when holding a "real" blaster. While i see the pipe builds as looking more accurate, i believe it doesn´t matter - no kid will get a wet pant cause of them. Unlike some Troopers. So you want this change cause "you" want it (for what reason ever, even with it you are no real Stormtrooper, right?), not cause it´s better or more funny/exiting for the kids at the events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 No, I believe there will be a change with our without my help, for the better. Just as FX helmets are becoming more rare. But I do intend to do my part to speed it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichtbringer Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 For which "better"? Better for trooping and bringing fun to kids (they don´t care for such details), or better for feeling cool and accurate (from my point of view it´s still plastic toy stuff only)? Imho these 2 directions arn´t going the same way in every aspect of trooping. It all comes down to which of these directions floats your boat. For the kids the hasbro is enough, for self displaying it needs obvisiously more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daetrin[Admin] Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think at this point you guys are agreeing to disagree. Darthfoster's Hasbro conversion is superb and just as good as some of the scratch built pipe blasters out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebladejedi[TK] Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 People has always been fighting change, like when the fork was introduced, when earth was no longer flat, or it was the center of the universe. Evolution is •still• fought by some people. Get over it, the hasbro is not the center of the TK universe. +1 My first blaster for trooping was the SE-14R - but I needed an E-11 for clearance, so I went with the hasbro. I even got 'fisd elite' with a modded version but soon upgraded to a hyperfim when I was able. As a basic entry level weapon I would say yes - but for anything else, no; there are much better options avilable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 For which "better"? Better for trooping and bringing fun to kids (they don´t care for such details), or better for feeling cool and accurate (from my point of view it´s still plastic toy stuff only)? Imho these 2 directions arn´t going the same way in every aspect of trooping. It all comes down to which of these directions floats your boat. For the kids the hasbro is enough, for self displaying it needs obvisiously more. I think that you can't be so black and white. I do some heavy trooping with my blaster and I meet kids of all ages and I'm pretty sure that a lot of them do notice the difference between a hasbro and a pipe kit. Sure, if you want to put sound and lights into a pipe kit it can be both complicated and expensive. On the other hand, I tell the kids who want to play with my blaster that a gun is not a toy, and they respect that most of the times. At least if you have a blaster that looks like a real gun you have some leverage to claim such a thing. And I do think that guns are not suitable toys for small kids. Guns should be treated with respect. And yes I've done military service, so I know what a real gun feels like (just bringing this up so I don't get a counter argument about that later). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john danter Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I didn't think flashing lights in our blasters was welcomed anyway? Risk of triggering Epilepsy attacks etc......? I think our efforts should be concerned with TKs using the wrong E11 version with their TKs If you have a hasbro, fine. It's not accurate however. Too short, odd grip, wrong end cap and muzzle port. If it's just cos it's LFL stamped.....I may go for a Rubies centurion It looks like a Stormtrooper and it's got LFL on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daetrin[Admin] Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think there is a disconnect here John. Many realize that the UKG is on the higher end in terms of standards for stormtroopers Legion wide and also for events (you don't have non-canon events for instance). However the reality is that in many parts of the US at least things are more relaxed. And if feedback it any guide, the constant haranging of other members just causes a backlash and people digging in their heels. I'd suggest that anyone wanting to make a change for stormtrooper accuracy outside thier own garrison that they do so via positive example, not negative criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john danter Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Sorry Paul, just highlighting the flaws in other peoples comments in support of Hasbro blasters Im not condoning their banishment for current members. Merely stating, moving forward we should encourage people to build pipe blasters Seriously though.... A pipe must be far easier to source than a hasbro blaster? Are they still made, even? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoopy trooper[TK] Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Hasbro's are still being made . I picked up 4 today @ walmart .I have the manager get them for me and hold on to them for pick up . I use them for birthday party's . I cover the tip with tape and just paint them flat black . The kids love them when I give them out . I have NEVER had a kid not like one yet and I give 4-5 of them out every year . It kinda seams like this is like beating a dead horse . I don't think any time soon the 501st will remove them . Some like them some don't .............. None of us will ever agree on this topic . It can go to 20 pages and we all will still be going around and around with this . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichtbringer Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think that you can't be so black and white. I do some heavy trooping with my blaster and I meet kids of all ages and I'm pretty sure that a lot of them do notice the difference between a hasbro and a pipe kit. Sure, if you want to put sound and lights into a pipe kit it can be both complicated and expensive. On the other hand, I tell the kids who want to play with my blaster that a gun is not a toy, and they respect that most of the times. At least if you have a blaster that looks like a real gun you have some leverage to claim such a thing. And I do think that guns are not suitable toys for small kids. Guns should be treated with respect. And yes I've done military service, so I know what a real gun feels like (just bringing this up so I don't get a counter argument about that later). I can. Not cause i think they are great or something that way, but if anyone chooses to use it (for what reasons ever), i think it should be his business only. Not the business of other guys who think their pipe is better. It might be their opinion, but not everyone agrees on that, or has to agree. How would you feel when i argue over and over that nothing is acceptable than a all metal version - or "real or nothing"? From my point of view these pipes are just a pipe with some glued parts. Do i think it´s better than a Hasbro? With regard to accuracy, yes (a little bit) - with regard to fun, no. In my eyes they draw level, in different directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 I can. Not cause i think they are great or something that way, but if anyone chooses to use it (for what reasons ever), i think it should be his business only. Not the business of other guys who think their pipe is better. It might be their opinion, but not everyone agrees on that, or has to agree. How would you feel when i argue over and over that nothing is acceptable than a all metal version - or "real or nothing"? From my point of view these pipes are just a pipe with some glued parts. Do i think it´s better than a Hasbro? With regard to accuracy, yes (a little bit) - with regard to fun, no. In my eyes they draw level, in different directions. Sure, this I kinda agree on. I'm not gonna tell someone at a troop to "go home or get a real blaster". What I'm looking for is a genuine feeling from the hasbro guys that they want to improve. If there were no such feeling at all, the wouldn't even have bothered to paint it black. So why stop there, why not go the extra 10 yards (hardly one mile in this example) to build a pipe kit instead? It's funny that you mention that, I'm having an all metal one made for me. So I guess I wouldn't care if you said that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john danter Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 What about my point on epilepsy? I think that's a valid concern. You cant go flashing lights in kids faces if they're epileptic, surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichtbringer Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Sure, this I kinda agree on. I'm not gonna tell someone at a troop to "go home or get a real blaster". What I'm looking for is a genuine feeling from the hasbro guys that they want to improve. If there were no such feeling at all, the wouldn't even have bothered to paint it black. So why stop there, why not go the extra 10 yards (hardly one mile in this example) to build a pipe kit instead? Being black, longer than a pistol, having it´s trigger roughly in the middle are the main attributes to reckognize a Stormtrooper blaster - and that could be achieved with some parts from a cut broomhandle. That would be enough to identify it as a Stormtrooper blaster as a guy in white plastic carries it arround - all the details are only for short distance. If you go the 10 yards from a Hasbro to a pipe, why not another 10 to a alu pipe? Or another 10 to real steel? Or 10 more for a all steel version? It's funny that you mention that, I'm having an all metal one made for me. So I guess I wouldn't care if you said that. Yeah, that´s funny. For me all the plastic versions compared to a real one are the same as a foam sword from a guy, costumed in yellow fur with Piccachu ears to a forged medival sword. And cause i see them all as toys, it seems that i as a prop guy can accept them easier for trooping guys that run around in costumes (not as a prop to display, no way) than some other guys in costumes can accept them. Maybe cause i can´t see the whole thing very serious, running around in costume is Halloween/Karneval for me - pure fun, it isnt real and it never will. Did i mention the anime guys in fur? Same for me. I put other, higher standards on a display piece. On a armor on a mannequin standing in a corner holding a deac, which is seen always on close distance - that is something accuracy is needed/prefered. But as a SW-fan and visitor i don´t care what the costumes are as long as they are not really accurate. Would i prefer everyone to carry acc. armor and real deacs? Sure. But as long as someone else chooses to do his costuming in another way, i´m fine with it too. We see to skinny troopers, to round troopers, very round jedis, blond Leias - all that is more a problem for "looking starwarsy" for me than a Hasbro. Do i think a Kenner/Hasbro Han Solo blaster looks completly wrong, even to a costume? Yes. Would i prefer them carrying metal ones? Hell, yeah. I "myself" can´t understand why someone chooses to put much effort in the costume and then ruining it with a bad gun/lightsaber/whatever. But then i go a step back, take a deep breath, and say "who cares, it´s just costuming stuff for fun - nothing to take serious". As long as i don´t buy them their stuff from my money, it´s not my business if they look other than i would prefer, not even if they look funny or shabby. If someone asks "do you think it´s good?", then i can give them my comments/opinion about what would be better (imho). They can´t go for Centurion with a hasbro, OK - but for gods sake, let them keep them for Standard or Expert - without fanatic discussions over a accuracy only fanboys would notice. It´s no prop replica, just a part for a costume. It should be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichtbringer Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 What about my point on epilepsy? I think that's a valid concern. You cant go flashing lights in kids faces if they're epileptic, surely? If that would be a real problem, for sure the laws would bann lights in toys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davej[TK] Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 I've got 4 different trooping E-11s, a base Hasbro, painted black, a doopydoo'ed hasbro ( I've not used this one for years), a basic pipe build, and a you-beaut pipe build with all the bells and whistles. I never thought I'd troop with a Hasbro again, but we recently did 4 Weird Al gigs, and there was no way I was going to jump around on stage with either of my pipe builds. So, painted Hasbro it was. I think they have their place. Btw, they are all illegal in Australia, so I can get arrested for carrying any of them. The "I have a Hasbro because it won't get me arrested, and a pipe build will" spiel doesn't cut it here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) Being black, longer than a pistol, having it´s trigger roughly in the middle are the main attributes to reckognize a Stormtrooper blaster - and that could be achieved with some parts from a cut broomhandle. That would be enough to identify it as a Stormtrooper blaster as a guy in white plastic carries it arround - all the details are only for short distance. If you go the 10 yards from a Hasbro to a pipe, why not another 10 to a alu pipe? Or another 10 to real steel? Or 10 more for a all steel version? I would love that! Yeah, that´s funny. For me all the plastic versions compared to a real one are the same as a foam sword from a guy, costumed in yellow fur with Piccachu ears to a forged medival sword. And cause i see them all as toys, it seems that i as a prop guy can accept them easier for trooping guys that run around in costumes (not as a prop to display, no way) than some other guys in costumes can accept them. Maybe cause i can´t see the whole thing very serious, running around in costume is Halloween/Karneval for me - pure fun, it isnt real and it never will. Did i mention the anime guys in fur? Same for me. Well, costuming is obviously not your thing. But I'm pretty sure there are those with the picachu suits that spend a lot of time and effort to perfect their costumes too. Sure, It's quite impossible to transform yourself as a 6 feet man into a 1 foot fantasy animal, but at least you could try to get the stripes correct, no? I put other, higher standards on a display piece. On a armor on a mannequin standing in a corner holding a deac, which is seen always on close distance - that is something accuracy is needed/prefered. As a trooper I am most certain that your blaster will be looked upon even closer than when it's on your mannequin and why should it then not stand up to the same standards as a display piece. Just because you take it out of your glass cabinet once in a while does it mean that it cannot be rugged enough to stand some handling. But as a SW-fan and visitor i don´t care what the costumes are as long as they are not really accurate. Would i prefer everyone to carry acc. armor and real deacs? Sure. But as long as someone else chooses to do his costuming in another way, i´m fine with it too. We see to skinny troopers, to round troopers, very round jedis, blond Leias - all that is more a problem for "looking starwarsy" for me than a Hasbro. Do i think a Kenner/Hasbro Han Solo blaster looks completly wrong, even to a costume? Yes. Would i prefer them carrying metal ones? Hell, yeah. I "myself" can´t understand why someone chooses to put much effort in the costume and then ruining it with a bad gun/lightsaber/whatever. But then i go a step back, take a deep breath, and say "who cares, it´s just costuming stuff for fun - nothing to take serious". As long as i don´t buy them their stuff from my money, it´s not my business if they look other than i would prefer, not even if they look funny or shabby. If someone asks "do you think it´s good?", then i can give them my comments/opinion about what would be better (imho). Different garrisons have GMLs with different standards, it's impossible to get away from. But I would object if I saw a blond Leia. I'm not gonna tell them to permanently dye their hair, but they could get a wig. They should not even be approved without one anyway. And as far as body types go, sure, if you're asian and want to do Leia or Solo or any other "face character", there's not much you can do about that, so just do it. And do it as good as you can. But for some people, maybe their body type would suit them better in another costume. I don't want to crush anyones dreams here, and if they really want to do it, go for it. I'm just saying that if you take a step back and think about it, maybe you can find another costume you really like and will fit your body type better, to work *for* you instead of *against* you. I for example am far too short to be a good Vader, therefore I'm not even gonna try to. They can´t go for Centurion with a hasbro, OK - but for gods sake, let them keep them for Standard or Expert - without fanatic discussions over a accuracy only fanboys would notice. It´s no prop replica, just a part for a costume. It should be fun. It should be fun, YES! but at least to me, building and making it look good is a part of the fun. And I do think there are more than just fanboys that notice the difference. I don't even consider myself a fanboy, I'm just a lot about details and what is "right". All in all, as Deatrin said, I guess well just agree to disagree. Edited May 18, 2011 by Locitus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichtbringer Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Well, costuming is obviously not your thing. Right, it isn´t. It is not allowed to make it right due to existing laws, and for me it´s "right" or "wrong" (only as my point of view, not for telling someone what he should do) - if something is wrong from the beginning, i think it ridicuolous to have a stand of "But my wrong is not as wrong as your wrong - do it my way." If he does, goooood, it not, well it´s still both not accurate. Everyone might still have his own opinion (and mine is for sure closer to yours than to someones who wants a Hasbro), but has no rights to make decisions for other. But I'm pretty sure there are those with the picachu suits that spend a lot of time and effort to perfect their costumes too. Sure, It's quite impossible to transform yourself as a 6 feet man into a 1 foot fantasy animal, but at least you could try to get the stripes correct, no? But as someone loves to have no Picachu-stripes, if he wants tiger-stripes - isn´t is his own right to make his own decision on that? And still have fun in running around with "wrong" stripes? As a trooper I am most certain that your blaster will be looked upon even closer than when it's on your mannequin and why should it then not stand up to the same standards as a display piece. Just because you take it out of your glass cabinet once in a while does it mean that it cannot be rugged enough to stand some handling. Most of the people that watch can´t differ one ANH from any other ROTJ version - for them it´s all "Stormtrooper blaster", a cool thing to look at, but not knowing it´s accuracy. And the kids probably know more about DC-15 variants than about the details on the "old stuff" - they know each Clonetroopers name, but Stormtrooper is Stormtrooper for them. Different garrisons have GMLs with different standards, it's impossible to get away from. But I would object if I saw a blond Leia. I'm not gonna tell them to permanently dye their hair, but they could get a wig. They should not even be approved without one anyway. And as far as body types go, sure, if you're asian and want to do Leia or Solo or any other "face character", there's not much you can do about that, so just do it. And do it as good as you can. But for some people, maybe their body type would suit them better in another costume. I don't want to crush anyones dreams here, and if they really want to do it, go for it. I'm just saying that if you take a step back and think about it, maybe you can find another costume you really like and will fit your body type better, to work *for* you instead of *against* you. I for example am far too short to be a good Vader, therefore I'm not even gonna try to. I second that, wholehartly. But my main point is that after all it is only the decision of the people alone. If they have fun in/with low-standard stuff, why not? Why look down on them, just let them have their fun - if they don´t care if other people look and talk about them, who am i (or you) to say them they can´t? We are not forced to do it their way too, so ..... not our business. It should be fun, YES! but at least to me, building and making it look good is a part of the fun. And I do think there are more than just fanboys that notice the difference. I don't even consider myself a fanboy, I'm just a lot about details and what is "right". My fun is building them, too. But i assure you that our minds are biased due to this, only those like us notice the differencies. My wife likes SW, and she is used to see the stuff i make - but if i would ask her, without holding both versions in front of her, she would only say "Stormtrooper blaster" to both of them. If i would then ask her which one is more accurate, she probably would try to get a look at my deac to try to compare the questioned ones to it. And the same do my friends who are not into props but love SW. "We" in our world are that far from their world (and even more to not SW-fans, who just go there for the action or for their kids) that we can´t imagine what they see and what not any longer. All in all, as Deatrin said, I guess well just agree to disagree. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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